Order of the Phoenix Spoiler Thread

[DWAlphaGam]

Did anyone notice how Dudley had beaten up someone named Mark Evans in the beginning? Lily's (Harry's mother) maiden name was Evans. Perhaps that's a sign that Harry has more family hiding around somewhere...I don't think that JKR would throw that in without meaning something by it (I know Evans is a pretty popular name, but still).

I think that Dumbledore may be related to Harry in some way; maybe he is Lily's uncle or something. If Lily came from a wizarding family, even if it skipped a couple of generations, that may explain why Aunt Petunia was acting so strangely and knows more than she lets on. It could also explain the "ancient magic" and how she understood why she needed to take Harry in as a baby and keep him there no matter what.

Someone said they were glad that Lupin didn't die, and I have to agree with that. I liked Sirius and the idea that Harry had someone who cared about him like family, but he was kind of a bad influence on Harry. I think that Lupin could easily fill in the spot that Sirius left, since he was also very close with Harry's parents.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by CardinalSM
This book was pretty good, but not as good I think as number 4. I lost a lot of respect for Harry in this book, he was being such a jerk though the whole thing, always snapping at everybody and wallowing in his own pity party. But I gained lots of respect for Neville and even some for Snape. I need to reread the book, there were so many plot lines that I need to try and sort them again with a second read.

I think the fact that Harry was so angry all the time was just J.K. Rowling's portrayal of teenage angst. I don't think there were any of us that weren't just as bratty as him at age 16.

Plus, you have to admit that with all the stress he's under, you'd be a little moody too.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by DWAlphaGam
Did anyone notice how Dudley had beaten up someone named Mark Evans in the beginning? Lily's (Harry's mother) maiden name was Evans. Perhaps that's a sign that Harry has more family hiding around somewhere...I don't think that JKR would throw that in without meaning something by it (I know Evans is a pretty popular name, but still).

I noticed that too! And I agree with you . . . when Rowling does stuff like that, it's not accidental. She could have come up with a hundred other names. If she used "Evans," there's a reason for it. And notice how Mark is ten, which means he'll be eleven next year . . . coincidentally the same age as Hogwarts' first years? I wouldn't be surprised if we see Mark Evans at Hogwarts next year.

[OUlioness01]

i noticed it too but forgot about it...rowling almost never doubles names. i don't think she's done it yet at least. that's a really good theory!

[MooseGirl]

I just finished reading the book!

I have to day I feel a bit disappointed, i think, hard to tell what this feeling is. I don't have expectations for the author - I'm happy to read whatever is written - but I still have this "wanting more" feeling, but not for the next book...like i missed something in this one...

Perhaps it is because i expected to cry at the death and I didn't. It just went by so fast, I didn't really feel sad. Only slightly in Dunbledore's office did i get sad, and then not as bad as when Cedric was murdered!
I even got weapy at the beginning of the book when Molly was battling the Boggart - i'm not a mother but for some reason that touched me.


I guess I might be slightly disappointed too that the ron/hermione ship has not been expanded...maybe I was hoping they'd get together...


But don't get me wrong...I did enjoy the book!! It's great how the book is so dark and serious yet there are great moments of humour! where would we be without Fred and George!?! (it looks like Molly may have forgiven them for leaving Hogwarts since they were at the station...)

I'm going to miss Sirius though. I always pictured Harry leaving Hogwarts one day to live with him. It's sad to think he's all alone again....

Bye bye Snuffles

[DWAlphaGam]

Originally posted by MooseGirl

But don't get me wrong...I did enjoy the book!! It's great how the book is so dark and serious yet there are great moments of humour! where would we be without Fred and George!?! (it looks like Molly may have forgiven them for leaving Hogwarts since they were at the station...)

Hehehe, I love that Flitwick left part of their swamp to remember them by.

BTW, whoever asked about Percy-I don't remember him being mentioned at the end. I would imagine that he's still sticking by Fudge and that he will probably try to help the Ministry over the Order, even though Fudge knows now about Voldemort's return.

uh.. what everyone else said I wasn't that distraught over Sirius... I never really got attached to him, mostly because all throughout book 3 I had a hard time keeping him and Snape straight (darn those similar names). I was devestated when i thought it was going to be McGonagall who died, she's my favourite Hogwarts teacher

Okay, throwing something out into the wild here.... I still don't trust Snape. Even though he's done a lot to prove himself... I just still don't trust him. I feel like he's working under the surface as a double agent or something... you know, doing things for Dumbledore and the OotP to keep his place and not look suspicious, but I think he's still working for Voldemort.

For example... Harry's Occlumency lessons. It seemed like the more he worked with Snape, the more open his mind was to Voldemort... and on the nights when he had too many other things on his mind (exams, etc.) were the nights when he had normal dreams, when Snape was telling him to keep his mind clear.

I could be totally wrong, but I think in the end we'll see that the feelings of suspicion Harry, Ron, and the gang have been having about Snape will be right....

[KappaStargirl]

Sirius's death: I wouldn't have predicted it, but I understand it. I'm upset that we may never know why he laughed when the Law Enforcement wizards came to take him to Azkaban. I liked the glimpse into the Marauder era, but am also convinced that there's a lot more to the MWPP dynamic than was seen through Snape's memory. And speaking of Snape: Now that we know that Lucius Malfoy is a MWPP-era contemporary, does anyone else wonder how well they know each other? Of course they DO know each other, but what's their relationship like?

Remus and Sirius: My lord. You two are subtext on a stick.

Harry: Well, it's about goddamn time you started showing some emotion there. It's a miracle you didn't crack three books ago. I'm interested to see how he's going to accept his fate that he must either kill or be killed.

Hermione: You annoy me. You are now too perfect for my liking. You have gained too much emotional wisdom and I want to see you slip up.

Ron: The perfume was the right idea. Poor you. You have the world's biggest crush on Hermione and she's mostly clueless, I think. I'm so glad you were made prefect and Quidditch keeper. It's about time you started getting some glory of your own. I really think you're going to be the one to save Harry's ass in the end, and he'd better appreciate it.

Draco: I love what Rowling's done with you. You are a nasty, slimy, though mostly absent, git. I don't know why everyone thinks you're going to be redeemed.

Percy: I knew it. You did not disappoint my predictions. Let's see if you complete the KappaStargirl prophecy and join the Death Eaters in the end.

The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black: Probably one of the most interesting chapters in any HP book, as it gave so much to the storyline. Fascinating to see all the relationships between the characters.

[KappaKittyCat]

I cried over Sirius. He & Lupin have always been my favorites. But I knew even before the book came out that it had to be Sirius to die. Nothing else would give Harry enough rage to propel him through the rest of the story arch.

I want to march right down to the dungeons and give old Severus Snape a huge kick in the behind for terminating Harry's Occlumency lessons and just for being a lousy teacher in general. When Lupin taught Harry how to do the Patronus Charm, he explained the ideas behind it and helped him clear his mind of the bad throughts. Occlumency is by far more advanced magic, yet Snape just went full steam ahead and invaded the boy's brain. I'm sure that if Lupin or Dumbledore or someone Harry trusted had been teaching him, then Harry would have felt comfortable mentioning that the dreams were just getting worse as the lessons progressed.

Secondly, I wonder what Snape's motives were in placing that particular memory in his Pensieve. Of course he didn't want Harry to see it, but why? Is it because he didn't want Harry to see his dirty underwear, or could it be that he didn't want Harry to see what a jerk James was. Interesting...

Here's hoping that Lupin steps in to Sirius' role as Harry's godfather.

I am highly curious to know what Dudley Dursley heard when the Dementors were present.

I also agree with KappaStarGirl that Percy will go Death Eater. It'd be awesome if Ron has to/gets to take him out.

I'm curious about the veil. It wouldn't surprise me if Dumbledore walks through it at the end of the series. I mean, talk about a man whose life's work is over. He'd have no choice but to leave, kind of like how Gandalf has to go to Valinar at the end of The Lord of the Rings-- his time has ended. Remember, "To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure."

Finally, I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Neville Longbottom-- most of my fics revolve around him-- and I have a feeling that the caveat in the prophecy, that it could have been either him or Harry, will come through in the end and that Neville will be instrumental in Harry's killing Voldemort.

I have this sneaking suspicion that Harry will kill Voldemort, but die in the process.

[DolphinChicaDDD]

Originally posted by KappaKittyCat
I'm curious about the veil. It wouldn't surprise me if Dumbledore walks through it at the end of the series. I mean, talk about a man whose life's work is over. He'd have no choice but to leave, kind of like how Gandalf has to go to Valinar at the end of The Lord of the Rings-- his time has ended. Remember, "To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure."

I was thinking of the same thing. There is something about that veil that I think is going to turn out to be very important.
Between that and the fact of Harry being so angry, it seemed to me that the more I read this book, the more I thought about Star Wars(and its books) and The Lord of the Ring(and its books). I often felt like I had read this book previously...maybe I'm just a Seer, lol.

The thing that stuck me the most was the prophecy...there has to be another reason why she mentioned it. Although Harry is the marked one, I think that Neville will also have a big role in Voldemort's down fall. I also believe that Harry will defeat Voldemort but die in the process...there has to be some finality to the series, or else it has the potential to go on forever, and go downhill.

[DWAlphaGam]

Originally posted by KappaKittyCat
I have this sneaking suspicion that Harry will kill Voldemort, but die in the process.

Maybe because JKR keeps asking people why they're so confident that Harry will survive at the end?


I really hope we see more of Lupin in the next book because he's one of my favorites. I would like to see a lot more character development with him and I was disappointed that he was barely seen in OotP. (Of course, I'd like to see a lot more of several characters and it's probably not possible given that there are only 2 books left and still many loose ends to tie together.)


Maybe JKR will go back and do a set of prequels about the MWPP gang...there's no way she can get all of their story in in the next 2 books, and I think that people would eat up books about them. I know I would.

[MoonStar17]

WOW...
thats all i can say at the moment...amazing

im in a bit of a shock still reflecting will be back to post ALL my thoughts..

great book

[sherbertlemons]

Originally posted by KappaKittyCat
I cried over Sirius. He & Lupin have always been my favorites. But I knew even before the book came out that it had to be Sirius to die. Nothing else would give Harry enough rage to propel him through the rest of the story arch.

I want to march right down to the dungeons and give old Severus Snape a huge kick in the behind for terminating Harry's Occlumency lessons and just for being a lousy teacher in general. When Lupin taught Harry how to do the Patronus Charm, he explained the ideas behind it and helped him clear his mind of the bad throughts. Occlumency is by far more advanced magic, yet Snape just went full steam ahead and invaded the boy's brain. I'm sure that if Lupin or Dumbledore or someone Harry trusted had been teaching him, then Harry would have felt comfortable mentioning that the dreams were just getting worse as the lessons progressed.

Secondly, I wonder what Snape's motives were in placing that particular memory in his Pensieve. Of course he didn't want Harry to see it, but why? Is it because he didn't want Harry to see his dirty underwear, or could it be that he didn't want Harry to see what a jerk James was. Interesting...

Here's hoping that Lupin steps in to Sirius' role as Harry's godfather.

I am highly curious to know what Dudley Dursley heard when the Dementors were present.

I also agree with KappaStarGirl that Percy will go Death Eater. It'd be awesome if Ron has to/gets to take him out.

I'm curious about the veil. It wouldn't surprise me if Dumbledore walks through it at the end of the series. I mean, talk about a man whose life's work is over. He'd have no choice but to leave, kind of like how Gandalf has to go to Valinar at the end of The Lord of the Rings-- his time has ended. Remember, "To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure."

Finally, I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Neville Longbottom-- most of my fics revolve around him-- and I have a feeling that the caveat in the prophecy, that it could have been either him or Harry, will come through in the end and that Neville will be instrumental in Harry's killing Voldemort.

I have this sneaking suspicion that Harry will kill Voldemort, but die in the process.

Can I just say ditto to this entire post? Some of it I wouldn't have agreed with before OOtP, namely the whole Percy as death eater thing, but now I can't see it any other way. The Weasleys will be so boring if they all go the same staunch Gryfinndorian path. The chief appeal for Percy, imho, is that being evil means never having to say you're sorry. He hates being wrong.

My new hope for Neville- that he will end up getting enough OWLs and having the ambition to train as an Auror and follow in his parents' footsteps. Am I the only person who would have killed to see Minerva's career talks with Hermione, Ron, and Neville?

Oh, KKC, do you write fanfic too? How much would I have to beg and plead to be pointed to your fics? Am developing definite Neville soft spot.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by KappaStargirl

Remus and Sirius: My lord. You two are subtext on a stick.

Didn't they give Harry a joint Christmas present? That's all I'm gonna say.

I'm really curious about the purpose of the veil -- what exactly was it originally intended to DO? From what Nearly Headless Nick says, I assume it's one of the tools they use to study death in the Department of Mysteries, but beyond that, what it is used for, how does it work? I have a feeling we'll be back there at one point or another. I like your prediction about Dumbledore walking through it at the end of the series, KKC.

Originally posted by KappaKittyCat

I have this sneaking suspicion that Harry will kill Voldemort, but die in the process.

I've heard a lot of people saying that, but I don't really believe that. I think that Rowling knows that, at the heart of it, she's still writing a children's novel, and she needs to write an ending to the series that will satisfy people from age 5 to 45 . . . face it, if Harry dies, the younger end of that spectrum is going to be pretty upset. I've heard speculation that one of the reasons that Harry (especially up until this book) seemed like such a blank slate of a character was so that readers could better identify with Harry and place themselves in his shoes. I don't think Rowling would go so far as to kill off a character that so many young kids really identify with. The story is getting dark, but I don't think it'll ever get that dark.

I do agree that there is going to be some kind of twist at the end, though, and that it won't be a black vs. white, good-always-triumphs-over-evil thing. Possibly, if our predictions above are right, Neville could help Harry kill Voldemort, and both Voldemort and Neville will die . . . something along those lines. I think there are going to be some deaths on the "good side" with the final battle versus Voldemort, but I would be really surprised if Harry is one of them.

Lupin is not supposed to appear in Book 6, but he is slated to have a decent role in Book 7.

[MooseGirl]

Originally posted by KappaStargirl

Percy: I knew it. You did not disappoint my predictions. Let's see if you complete the KappaStargirl prophecy and join the Death Eaters in the end.

Although some of you agree to this, I do not think Percy will become a death-eater.

I feel he is more likely to go the way of Barty Crouch Sr. - so anti-deatheater, so strict, that only the Law counts for anything, which means the Order is still working outside of the law and thus he still will not accept it....
I really cannot see him joining the dark Lord, although I do imagine him with a shrine to Crouch