Black Men and White Women Is it a Problem?

[mgdzkm433]

Very well said. I agree 100%.

[PositivelyAKA]

Username i agree with some of your post, but on a few points i have to differ. The Civil war was not fought over slavery. Lincoln said that if he could unite all the states and not free one slave he would, and he also owned slaves. Infact the Civil war was fought over State Rights, slavery being just one of the issues. White men did not put their lives on the line simply to free black people, but to make the southern states in particular see how serious the north was about the disunity that had formed politically and economically between the states. I don't claim to be an expert, but any historian will tell you this. If in fact it was over slavery then there would have been no jim crow laws in the south and in the north no massive violations of civil rights even to this day, if they wanted to help black folks gain equality that is.
In addition many blacks and whites have tried to put aside the difficulties of the past, but it has not stoped the hatred that still persist in our country. Hatred goes deeper then some of us want to believe (and little green men and laser guns really is an insult and not funny considering what blacks have been thru in this country neither would a jew i'm sure appreciate that comment considering their plight in europe and even in the US, but i don't expect you to understand), yes racism it is ridiculous on the surface but some still take race very seriously. Anyway i don't go around blaming whites for my problems, but i will always remember my history (cause it did directly affect my people) so that i will not
turn around and let those who would try get the chance to repeat it.

[SilverTurtle]

So you want to talk about history..one of my fave subjects..

Positively AKA is right, the Civil War was all about politics. The south was ticked off because Abe wasn't going to allow any more slave states in the union (meaning eventually, maybe slavery would die off in the existing slave states, but not necessarily). That would mean that non-slave states would start to gain more voting power (if you don't know why, watch some School House Rock ) and eventually the slave states would lose most of their battles. It wasn't just about slaves, but lifestyle: slave states were plantations and agriculture, non-slave states were industry. Abe was smart enough to use slavery as a vehicle to unite the common man of the north. While slavery wasn't his big concern, I'm still happy he choose to fight to do away with it.

Regarding slavery in general:
Slavery existed forever before the U.S. The big issue w/ the U.S. is that we are the first country (since the Pharoas enslaved the Hebrews) to limit slavery to one race. I am not advocating any kind of slavery, just sharing the facts. Most slavery was to pay off debt, sometimes the person got screwed (see Gladiator, whatever... but it didn't matter what their race/ethnicity was. So, a black enslaved to a Roamn could earn or buy their freedom. An interesting, although sad, fact to add here:
When the big slave trade to the U.S. started, many of the slave were captured and sold by (black) Africans. Sometimes just for the money, other times to keep their own tribe out of trouble, it depends. (I learned this in my (high school) freshman World Cultures class, in case you were wondering about its accuracy. I don't recall the name of our text, though).
Once the U.S. got slaves, it couldn't stay in business without them, at least not all of the plantation owners. (They couldn't have paid that many people to do that much work and still prospered). So keeping slaves was, from THEIR viewpoint (not my beliefs) a necessity to their (selfish) well-being. And then you have the issue I mentioned above w/ the voting power.

So, do I look at race when choosing a mate (or date)? No. I'm a white American (German, Irish, Scotch-Irish, and tiny bit Native American) and my boyfriend considers himself either white or Latino, depending on when you ask him. (he's both Italian and Hispanic in origin, and a tiny bit of German, and was raised 'white'). I think it's a shame that race has to be an issue, but I'm not going to act like it isn't either. I know my folks are pretty open-minded, so I hope that if I ever brought home a guy of another race it wouldn't be an issue, but I don't know if it would or not.

I am about to say somethinig that will sound stereotyped, and it is, ..I don't think it is always true, but often it is which is why it's a stereotype in the first place.

Most of the relationships between black men and white women which I have witnessed seem to consist of the black man treating the white girl like trash. Someone talked about strong women earlier in this topic, and I kind of think they are right.

On the flip side, when I see white men with black women (which is much less common around here) they both seem to treat each other with a lot of love and respect.

-(End of my stereotypes.)

As Mikki said, please don't hold me (a white person) accountable for the actions of people who may or more than likely may not have been part of the problem (most of my known ancestors have only been here a short time). Yes, black have been treated s****y by U.S. society, NO, it's not okay, and YES I would like to see it change. Just as I would like to see society embrace all sexes, races, genders, and backgrounds. It's a long battle, but staying bitter isn't going to help any of us get past it. Don't forget the past, but don't dwell in it, either.

(stepping of the soap box now )

------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

[This message has been edited by SilverTurtle (edited May 24, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by SilverTurtle (edited May 24, 2000).]

PositivelyAKA, I do understand your point that there were other political issues between the Union & the Confederacy but slavery was definitely the main one. Slavery was the driving force which caused the confederate states to separate from the union and which lead our contry into civil war. The confederate states separated because they wanted to keep slavery, the union states fought to unite the country which directly led to the abolition of slavery. Uniting the states would have taken power away from the small group of slave states, which would have eventually ended slavery through the political process. But, if we only relied on the political process, slavery may have lasted many more decades than it did. The union victory directly led to the immediate abolition of slavery and the start of the social process between the white & black cultures. Yes, white men did die for the freedom of slaves. A law was able to make slavery illegal overnight but it cannot change *feelings/opinons* that fast. Changing the *feelings/opinions* is what takes social progress.

About my statement that "Not all little green men will melt you with their lasergun" in my previous post, please read that statement with regards to the context that I put it in. My point within that whole paragraph was to say that no matter the color, even if the person/being is a little GREEN man (from outer space), it does not mean they want to harm you or that they hold bad feelings towards you. An individual's character does not come from their COLOR, it comes from their inner-self. I do apologize if you (or anyone else) took offense to the 'little green man' statement, that was definitely not my intention.

[theXgirl]

Originally posted by prettygyrl:
I ask my Black sisters and brothers what do you REALLY have in COMMON with a White person.Do they feel your pain?Do they understand your plight? Are they trying to make a difference that will benefit you? As far as Kobe I do not know what race his girl is but for famous men and other Black men that date white women........ I will pray one day you wake up and see the light. If you do not then to hell with ya we do not need ya any way. This topic is so deep for me I will not even go out with a mixed guy or a Black guy if I know he has dated a white woman. Black PEOPLE lose my respect when they run back to the "master" looking for love when they need too embrace the love of their own people! That was just my 50 cents

Prettygryl,

How long are you going to be angry at the world? I'm not saying your feelings aren't valid, they are very valid, but my friend you really need to channel that NEGATIVE ENERGY into something positive. Insted of seeing color, see the good in people. You sound like you're young (agewise) and still have a lot of living to do. Don't be so bitter. Life sucks when you're always angry. When you find that peaceful place in your self, I hope you can make the journey with the rest of us.

theXgirl

[prettygyrl]

First of all thanks AKA for undestanding me some. I never said I did not like white people! I said I would not date them. I also said that I just do not like the whole idea of whites mixing with Blacks as far as relationships go. Someone asked if I consider myself a racist? Honestly, I do not but some say I am. I do not hate people of any race, first of all! I would never commit a hate crime or say deragatory things to white people just because, I am better than that! I was exspressing my feelings on interracial dating. But...... honestly it makes no difference to me or not if i ever see another white person ya know. I mean if they all picked up and moved or whatever I would not miss them at all. Take that how you want. Believe it or not I have white friends and white people in my family so to speak but I still would not EVER be with one in a relationship. I would hope and pray that my children will not but if they do then thats up to them. I don't like it now and I won't ever like it but it happens and it will continue to happen so you know youlearn to live with it. As for the white woman that posted saying that her answer was typical "do not blame me for what my ancestors did". I do not have to cause your people continue to do it. It is not your fault entirely but what are you doing to help the current problems? I have a mixed nephew I love him to death. I also feel bad for him for what he may have to go through in life. I suppose I am bitter but not just because of the past...also because of the present I mean some of you speak as if alot is different now. Get real!!! I am mostly bitter that alot of my people still think that one day everyone will be equal in this world and we will all be treated the same so they have this forgiveness for white people. Please!!! In all reality are struggle will continue until we find some love among our own people and unite together! Instead of trying to unite with the white people! I am not saying hate them I am just saying see them for what they really are and quit trying to gain their respect and accetptance! THE BOTTOM LINE IS WHITE PEOPLE DO NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT US!! I DO NOT CARE HOW MANY OF THEM WE DATE OVER ALL THEY DO NOT CARE. AS LONG AS WE STAY IN OUR PLACE AND CONTINUE TO KILL OURSELVES AND HATE ONE ANOTHER THEY WILL BE CONTENT! SO IF WHO EVER WANTS TO "LOVE" THEM GO AHEAD DO YOUR THING. YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE AND I BELEIVE WHAT I BELEIVE PERIOD. I DO NOT HATE WHITE PEOPLE.........BUT I DO NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THEM EITHER. YOU KNOW KIND OF LIKE THE KID IN YOUR CLASS THAT YOU KNOW IS IN THERE BUT YOU DO NOT KNOW HIS NAME NEVER REALLY TALKED TO HIM SO YOU CAN NOT SAY YOU LIKE HIM OR DISLIKE HIM AND ONE DAY IF HE STOPS COMING YOU DO NOT EVEN NOTICE OR IF YOU DO YOU DO, YOU DO NOT GIVE A FUCK! THATS HOW I FEEL ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE! MUCH LOVE TO ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS! OH AND TO THE GUY THAT SAID HE DATES ANY RACE HE WANTS TO AND DOES NOT CARE WHAT PEOPLE THINK......OKAY BUT WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO EXPLAIN THAT TO ME WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO CONVINCE! DATE WHO YOU LIKE HELL I DO NOT WANT YOUR ASS ANYWAY!!!! ITS LIKE AKA SAID THE MAN THAT I FIND WILL LOVE ME AND ONLY ME! HE WILL NOT HAVE TO LOOK FOR A WHITE WOMAN TO FLOSS ON HIS ARM FOR HIM TO FEEL LIKE HE IS SOMEONE!!! AND FOR THE GIRL WHO SAID THAT BLACK MEN TREAT WHITE WOMEN LIKE SHIT.......THATS NOT TRUE CAUSE MY BROTHER TREATS HIS GIRLFIREND GREAT AND MOST MEN I KNOW USUALLY HAVE TREATED THE SISTERS LIKE SHIT THEN THEY GET WITH THE WHITE GIRL AND TREAT HER LIKE QUEEN ELIZABETH AND WHAT KILLS ME ABOUT THAT AND ABOUT MOST BROTHERS THAT ARE DATING WHITE WOMEN IS MOST OF THE TIME THEY CAN NOT EVEN GO TO HER PARENTS HOUSE AND BREAK BREAD WITH THEM! HALF THE TIME THE WOMAN HAS TO HIDE THE FACT THAT SHE IS DATING HIM! MY BROTHER BEEN WITH HIS GIRL FOR SEVEN YEARS AND HER FATHER JUST CAME OVER TO THEIR HOUSE FOR THE FIRST TIME!! ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS IS MIXED AND HER WHITE GRAND PARENTS STILL WILL NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HER AND SHE IS 25 AND HER SIS IS 20! ONE OF MY COUSINS WHO IS DATING A WHITE GIRL HAS BEEN WITH HER SINCE SHE WAS 14 AND NOW SHE IS 19 THEY HAVE A BABY AND HER FATHER STILL DO NOT KNOW THE BABIES FATHER IS BLACK(HE LOOKS WHITE NOW) WHEN SHE THREW A BIRTHDAY PARTY FOR THE BABY SHE HAD TO HAVE TWO, ONE FOR THE BLACK FAMILY (US) AND ONE FOR THE WHITE FAMILY! ONE OF MY OTHER COUSINS IS MARRIED TO A WHITE WOMAN AND HAS BEEN FOR THREE YEARS THEY HAVE TO LIVE IN DIFFERENT CITYS SO HER PARENTS WILL NOT FIND OUT CAUSE IF THEY DO SHE WILL NOT GET ANY OF "DADDYS" MONEY SO SHE HAS TO SNEAK AWAY TO SEE HER HUSBAND!! I COULD GO ON FOR DAYSSSSSSSS!! BUT YALL GET THE POINT! BUT ITS OKAY AS LONG AS THEY ARE IN LOVE RIGHT? I SAY BULLSHIT TO THAT! ANYONE ELSE CAN SAY WHATEVER THEY LIKE!

[CuRiOuSiTy]

Personally, I love to see my brothers and sisters together (it's a beautiful thing) but love knows no color (at least that's what I believe) and if you can find it with someone outside of your race then go for it.
However it does puzzle me (not enough to anger me) that when some black men get a little success they run outside. If it's love great, but if it's because they think "the grass is greener on the other side" that is a problem. It's not a problem for me though (or many other women) because there are a lot of black men out there who love them a beautiful black woman (I know a lot of them).
Black women (or women in general) don't get upset at this. If you think a man chooses a woman because of the color of her skin, then that is NOT the type of man you want.
I know this is a very diverse board. Let's not make this black-n-white. Do any other women of different ethnicities (sp?) have opinions on this?

prettygyrl wrote:
"I never said I did not like white people!"... "But...... honestly it makes no difference to me or not if i ever see another white person ya know. I mean if they all picked up and moved or whatever I would not miss them at all."... "Believe it or not I have white friends and white people in my family."

How could you have white friends/family and say these kinds of things? You would not miss your friends/family if you were to never see them again? How can you even consider these white people to be your friends when you feel this way towards all white people?


prettygyrl wrote:
"I do not have to cause your people continue to do it. It is not your fault entirely but what are you doing to help the current problems?"

It is not my (our) fault entirely? It is not my fault at all. Judging a group of people based on what individuals do is the basis of prejudice & stereotyping which leads to racism. What am I doing to help the current problems? I surely do not do what you do - that is, I do not judge people based on the color of their skin. I do not judge people based on their ethnicity. I DO judge *individuals* based on their own actions.


prettygyrl wrote:
"I mean some of you speak as if alot is different now. Get real!!! I am mostly bitter that alot of my people still think that one day everyone will be equal in this world and we will all be treated the same so they have this forgiveness for white people. Please!!! In all reality are struggle will continue until we find some love among our own people and unite together! Instead of trying to unite with the white people!"

Depending on the times in history you are comparing to, yes, things are a lot different now. Things are VERY different now than they were 200 years ago, but not much different than 1 year ago. About everyone one day being treated as equals, based on color, sex, ethnicity (etc) - I sure hope that this one day happens. But when it comes to merit (as individuals) equality makes no sense. By this I mean when it comes to things like choosing between students to accept for college or choosing who gets hired for a job, it should have nothing to do with color/sex/ethnicity and have everything to do with who has the most experience, knowledge, grades, etc.

You say, "Instead of trying to unite with the white people!" I think the majority of people who are uniting, aren't doing so because of color. I think it has more to do with common interests as citizens of the U.S.A. We all want a better country with less crime, less poverty, less hate - less bad & more good. When it comes to the *big picture* (the worldwide community) - we are ALL seen as Americans. There are people in the world (of all colors, white/black/etc) who would like to see many of our freedoms taken away and our country turn communist. Maybe one day our country will see first hand why we need to be united. Maybe that day will be when our shores are invaded and our freedoms at stake. United WE stand, divided WE fall.


In response to most of what you wrote in caps:
You describe how the grandparents are VERY unaccepting of the different colors. The parents are more accepting, but not totally. The children, well, many of them are in love (regardless of color). Your statements pretty much show a timeline of social progress. Our society may not be perfect (and may never be), but we are getting closer to that goal each and every day.

[mgdzkm433]

Pretty,

To me it's like amost 2 people have written your last post. First you say "I Do Not hate people of any race, first of all." But then you go on to say some things that can be considered insulting. In your first post, you stated "So I don not understand why ANY Black person would want one in their bed." I'm sorry, but that IS insluting. If I had said "so I don't know why an white person would want one(black person) in their bed." I would have imediatly been considered racist, predjudice, disriminatory, whatever you want to call it, and I probably would have been banned from the message board for it. The fact of the matter is, you are probably right. We will never have true equality in this world most likely. There will always be someone out there that thinks they are better than someone else based on skin color, gender, age, what have you. But how are we going to know that we can't stop it unless we try to stop it? And what am I doing about it as a white person? Well first off, I don't practice those beliefs, I'm not adding to the hate either. I might not have a national campaign going or anything, but I have never NEVER discriminated against anyone because of their race. Second, you obviously don't care if things get better or worse because it seems that you have given up. What are You doing to make things beter? Even though you say you don't hate white people, your words really make you seem to. From what I've read in your posts, you have a serious problem with white people. As for parents looking down at their daughters/sons dating someone black. Yes, my parents are like that, and it sucks and I Hate it. Its a fact I have to live with and any person I've dated that was of a different race (not just black). BUT, I've dated guys who's parent could not meet ME because I was white. It might not be as common, but the door swings both ways. I also have met guys who couldn't take me home, not because I was white but because I am pagan. So I've had people discriminate against me because I'm white and because of my religion. It's not fun, no, but I deal with it, and I don't hate all black people because of what my b/f's parents thought. And I don't hate Christians because my b/f's parents didn't agree with my religion. I hate to say it, but don't try to make it seem that it only happens to black people. It doesn't. Like I said, with the parent issue, the door swings both ways.

[Jae]

I'm gonna make this short and sweet Pretty...fuck you. I do not need to find a white girl to "floss on my arm to make me feel like someone". I have way too many things going on for me to be that ignorant. Its people like you that'll end up alone because of your pig-headed, ignorant ass attitudes. So what would you do if after dating a guy and sleeping with him, he tells you that a white girl was lying next to him in the exact same spot that you are lying in?
If I ever met you (yes you would want me), that's what I would do to you.

[Monique]

Damnnn Jae do u have to be so cold? I mean if prettygirl wants to voice her thoughs(some I agree with) then let her. Who or what gave YOU the right to judge anyone. All that shit you said was uncalled for. And how do you know if she saw you she would want you. Huh. What I guess you just Know You look good. It sounds like to me You are the ignorant one. And I don't care if you call yourself cursing me out cause that will show me just how *special you really are*. Please remember ALL people are intitled to there opinion. What cause I don't belieive in mixed races I'm ignorant and a racist to right. Check yo self first.

[Jae]

First of all, I didn't say she wasn't entitled to her opinion, but ignorant comments like I "need a white girl to floss on my arm to make me feel like someone" are uncalled for. She made some points that I agree with yes, but its comments like that that piss me off.

I completely agree with prettygyrl.
We must stick together as a race. In the back of every white persons mind is the word nigga. i am sorry that racism has died in some of your minds, but it lives everyday. And for those of you who support the Civil War as not being about slavery, but politics.....the south is definitely the place for you. You can join in that long ass Confederate Flag debate so it can continue to fly since it is only abour politics. Prettygyrl is only dropping knowledge and if you are blinded then you will never understand. It personally sickens me to see a brotha or a sista dating a white person. They know not your pain. And I am sorry that the past may upset some of you, but in order to move towards the future we must not forget our past. I am light-skinned and I HATE for people to question my ethnicity. I believe in the blacker the berry the sweeter the juice and the deeper the roots.
Our people are in prisons or either trying to kill each other and hate each other over gangs, drugs, and even greek organization rivalries. When will we wake up?
I'm sorry if the white people are offended, but that is life. I can't go everywhere you can go and feel safe. The Klan still runs strong and so do other nazi hate groups. So my brotha whose going to watch your back, that white girl on your arm.......HEll NAW!!!

[SilverTurtle]

shalom says:

i find your name pretty ironic, given the meaning of the work shalom.
---------------------------------------------

what's with all the hate-- between all the races/ethnicities/backgrounds/religions here?!

So much for a united greek community.

I'll tell you what, I think every last one of us has their own prejudices. And they are learned behaviors, from family, friends, society, regions, media etc.
I can remember growing up and going to a pretty large baptist church. There were a lot of white kids, and a lot of black kids, and some other races as well. I don't recall ever thinking of any of them as being different from me. They were just kids. But as I grew up, I became aware that society made some differences, and then by the time I got to college I realized that they we all are different: we all come from different backgrounds and cultures. There are some African-American friends of mine who are much more like me than some 'white' friends of mine--> it's all relative to our experiences.

I am the first to admit that, yes, I do have prejudices. But I can recognize them and I know where (and why) they come from. And being aware of them, I can also curb them before they affect my personal opinion of an individual.

I still stand by everything in my previous post, from the political stance during the Civil War to the way things are today. I know some of you will flame me for saying I have prejudices... does that mean you don't? Because obviously some people here (of a variety of histories/races/etc.) do. And if you think about it, I'm sure you'll think of at least one of yours.

I've been discriminated against. That doesn't mean that I hate all of those people forever because of the behavior of some of them. No, I don't have to deal with being African-American on a daily basis. I do deal with being a female. (If you think females aren't discriminated against, especially black females, you are just in denial).

The point to all my ramblings:
bad things happened in the past. bad things happen today. bad things will happen in the future.

we have the power to make good things happen now. we have the power to make good things happen in the future.

What am I doing to help ratify race in the states? I don't hate all blacks or chinese or Native Americans, or .....
I was involved in some multi-cultural organizations in college. (In fact, I supported a lot of the African-American student organization's events now that I think about it). I don't, nor have I ever, limited my friendships/relationships to any one race/religion/creed/etc. I've made a point to learn about the cultures and histories of my friends so I can get a little of their perspective. Never underestimate the power of education.

My GLO has different religions, nationalities, races, and genders, and is supportive of campus events such as 'World Week' and our Martin Luther King, Jr. Day of Learning. I'm happy that the brothers and sisters of my chapter weren't filled with hate and bitterness.



------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

[12dn94dst]

I'm a member of a mailing list where we're having a similar discussion. A Soror on that list brought up a good point. The disdain that some African Americans, particularly women, have for the concept of inter-racial dating is related to society's and the media's view of "beauty."

When I watch TV or read a magazine, unless I'm watching BET or reading Essence or Ebony, I rarely see anyone who is a reflection of me...no one with my broad nose, my full lips, my caramel complexion, my full hips and rear, my kinky hair. For some reason, that is not considered BEAUTUFUL. But I KNOW it is. WE KNOW it is. Our Mothers and Fathers have told us so. But no matter how much we KNOW that WE are BEAUTIFUL, it still HURTS to see an African American man date and marry a non-African-American woman, and ESPECIALLY a Caucasian one. Why does it hurt? Because it can be read as that African American man telling every African American woman that she is not BEAUTIFUL, that she is somehow sub-standard. To put it another way, interracial dating/marriages are and have been viewed by some as an INSULT.

I'm not saying this is what happens in all cases. We've been though the whole "love has no color" thing, but think about it this way....why are you wearing the clothes you have in your closet? I'll bet it's because you like they way they LOOK on you. Humans are very visual when it comes to choosing a mate. Any of you who are going to attemt to tell me you were first interested in your current boy/girlfriend because of his/her mind is LYING (unless you met them over the internet, but that's a whole other issue). Most likely you were attracted because of some PHYSICAL attribute. Because you liked what you SAW. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that some non-African-American men are not attractive....I'm not blind. But I LOVE and APPRECIATE the BEAUTY of an African-American man more than I feel an non-African American woman can.

It's wonderful to have someone else tell you you're pretty, cute, handsome, whatever, even when you know you are. But when it doesn't happen, it hurts and you start to wonder if you really are as good-looking to others as you are to yourself.

I'm not saying any of this to "condemn," as some others have, those who choose to date or marry outside of their ethnicity/race. If anything, I'd like to applaud you for having a love for others that most of the rest of us have yet to understand. It's going to take a while for this nation to be truly tolerant and respectful of each other, I seriously doubt it will happen in our lifetime.....it sure didn't happen in Martin's. Our society has ISSUES.....women are still fighting for fair and equal treatment, homosexuals are still waiting for the day where they can be open and honest about their sexuality and love for each other as heterosexuals, I'm not even going into the plight of non-white Americans as a whole.

Those who believe interracial relationship will be widely accepted within our lifetime are naive at best. We have too much to do as a society before that day will even dawn.

------------------
Kelli
12-DN-94
SSU c/o 1997