Line names and Numbers

[PADFSUGirl2K2]

My pledge class was at first abut 36 but the final was 30 (including me). We don't have line numbers but we do have nicknames. I don't understand why this is such a big deal still after several years from the first post was made. Anyway, HEY RASHID!!!

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by PADFSUGirl2K2

My pledge class was at first abut 36 but the final was 30 (including me). We don't have line numbers but we do have nicknames. I don't understand why this is such a big deal still after several years from the first post was made. Anyway, HEY RASHID!!!

And this is why I'm asking where it is more prevalent, since most campuses I encounter do not use the term "line", nor do they assign "names" or "numbers". Many of them see that practice as outright hazing because it isn't something in the pledging standards, others see it as something that belongs in the social greek realm and they are differentiating themselves from the socials.

APO is quite different in various parts of the country, and it's important to see and understand what may be OK in one chapter is not going to fly in another because it's not the campus/chapter culture.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

APO is quite different in various parts of the country, and it's important to see and understand what may be OK in one chapter is not going to fly in another because it's not the campus/chapter culture.

I think it's more important for chapters that *think* it's not okay realize that it's just a difference and not a violation.

[emb021]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

dzsaigirl: In another thread, you stated the following:

"What I do not understand is why some chapters insist upon using "line numbers" and such, when it has no significance in APO. I don't want this to sound wrong...I just don't see why you need to do that when it is not part of what the organization even recognizes?"

The same could be said of things such as big/little programs, family trees, and nicknames. These are things that are used by many chapters, but which there is no 'national policy' regarding them.

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I think it's more important for chapters that *think* it's not okay realize that it's just a difference and not a violation.

That's in the eye of the beholder. Assigning someone a name/number when they don't want it ceases to be a difference and enters into the realm of violation, especially if you can't tie the mandatory use of names/numbers to national pledging standards.

I'm personally not a big fan of them. I've seen chapters whose brothers spend more time focusing on what they're going to nickname their pledges than they do actually preparing them for active membership (you know, the reason we have a pledge program in the first place )

[PADFSUGirl2K2]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

And this is why I'm asking where it is more prevalent, since most campuses I encounter do not use the term "line", nor do they assign "names" or "numbers". Many of them see that practice as outright hazing because it isn't something in the pledging standards, others see it as something that belongs in the social greek realm and they are differentiating themselves from the socials.

APO is quite different in various parts of the country, and it's important to see and understand what may be OK in one chapter is not going to fly in another because it's not the campus/chapter culture.

Well, I didn't need to get hazed to get my nickname. I think that it is a regional thing because there are other brothers I knew before I was a member that claimed to have "pledged" and "earned" their line names. Personally, I don't see a problem with having a name but I don't see where hazing comes in if the name is fitting to your personality (at least it is at my chapter).

[naraht]

I personally have no problem with numbers, while I think that simply the average height of men and women is likely to give more women "ace"s and more men "tails". Perhaps that leads to slightly different views as to "ace"s and "tails", but as of now I don't see a problem.

Nicknames are a different issue. Honestly, it annoys me when someone gets a nickname that not only would they be likely be uncomfortable telling their parents, the chapter would be uncomfortable having the list of nicknames published in the school newspaper. "Earth Mother" is one thing, "Super Pimp" or "Sex on every Beach" is another...

As best as I can tell, the only thing that an NPHC fraternity or sorority chapter does in terms of membership (that is acceptable to their national) that an Alpha Phi Omega chapter would not be able to do is make new brothers/sisters in 3 days.

Now in membership, there is at least one area where Alpha Phi Omega seems to emphasize the direct opposite from the NPHCs, having pledges be public in the fact that they are likely to be initiated into the fraternity in the near term.

Other than that, I haven't seen any objection from staff in the areas of Line numbers, nicks, probate, or stepping... (I'm sure I've forgotten something)

Randy

[emb021]

Originally Posted by naraht

Nicknames are a different issue. Honestly, it annoys me when someone gets a nickname that not only would they be likely be uncomfortable telling their parents, the chapter would be uncomfortable having the list of nicknames published in the school newspaper. "Earth Mother" is one thing, "Super Pimp" or "Sex on every Beach" is another...

There is a simple way to address that. My Chapter has always given the pledge the right of refusing a nickname. This ensures they don't get a nickname they would object to. This is something I advocate when I do training on pledge programs.

As best as I can tell, the only thing that an NPHC fraternity or sorority chapter does in terms of membership (that is acceptable to their national) that an Alpha Phi Omega chapter would not be able to do is make new brothers/sisters in 3 days.

True. However, if the university demands that a chapter do so, they can do so. (we have an 'alternate pledge program' to handle that situation).

Other than that, I haven't seen any objection from staff in the areas of Line numbers, nicks, probate, or stepping... (I'm sure I've forgotten something)

And staff should be knowledgable enought not to object. I do see actives be confused by these things if they have not been exposed to them. Its thus important that knowledgeable Brothers (Advisors, staff) inform them about this so they don't think such practices are improper or the like.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by emb021

There is a simple way to address that. My Chapter has always given the pledge the right of refusing a nickname. This ensures they don't get a nickname they would object to. This is something I advocate when I do training on pledge programs.

True, but there needs to be the opportunity to object in private if the chapter's nicknames go that far. There is a lot of difference in the pressure if a big or the pledgemaster says your nickname will be this versus having to object in front of the rest of the pledge class and the entire brotherhood in a public ceremony.

Originally Posted by emb021

True. However, if the university demands that a chapter do so, they can do so. (we have an 'alternate pledge program' to handle that situation).

Any examples of schools requesting that short?

And staff should be knowledgable enought not to object. I do see actives be confused by these things if they have not been exposed to them. Its thus important that knowledgeable Brothers (Advisors, staff) inform them about this so they don't think such practices are improper or the like.

There is still a great deal of culture shock. I'm not saying that Carnegie-Mellon (my undergrad chapter) and Howard University have the most different traditions in the fraternity, but I *am* glad that Lisa Covi explained some things to me ahead of time...

[emb021]

Originally Posted by emb021

True. However, if the university demands that a chapter do so, they can do so. (we have an 'alternate pledge program' to handle that situation).

Originally Posted by naraht

Any examples of schools requesting that short?

Not of any specific schools.

National Pledging Standards say a pledge program will run from 6-10 weeks, no more and no less. IF a school demands that their chapter's program be shorter, then the National Office has an 'alternate pledge program' to hand it. I have heard of chapters were basically all the 'pledges' are immediately made Brothers, and the APP is used to educate them in APO after they because instant Brothers. But I couldn't give you examples of specific schools.