"You'll end up where you were meant to"...

[James]

Even in some of the smaller Greek Systems I have seen some girls get upset because they pledged a sorority that they wouldn't have normally chosen. some have gotten very bitter and deafiliated or just had a bad time.

Obviously this can be true even if you get the one of your choice, but since you made that choice free and clear you are likely to be less bitter about it.

Resentment and biterness will poison an experience quicker than anything else.

[33girl]

No offense to SEC schools, but thank God I didn't go to one LOL

I know what carnation is saying - maybe XYZ is where so and so is meant to be, but when XYZ has 75 legacies with 4.0's come through the door, it might not matter. It's like if I see a sweater in the store that is perfect for me - if there are 10 of it in the store, and the other 10 people who want that sweater come in before me, I'm screwed. And it has nothing to do with me personally.

As far as joining "weak" chapters, or chapters that look like they are going to fold - it is all in what you want. I know some women who joined chapters that closed the semester after they pledged, and they wouldn't trade it for ANYTHING. They still found sisterhood and lasting friendships. It's like that line in Steel Magnolias - "I'd rather have 30 minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special." However, there are women who only want social position and prestige out of a sorority experience. And if that's all you are looking at groups with, you're a user, and a loser. If you want to be in a sorority that just happens to be the most prestigious on campus - because that's who you like the most and feel comfortable with - fine. But I'd like to know how many of these women in the "big 5" or whatever are really happy and close with their sisters, and how many of them are just sucking up their real selves because of the prestige. That's the women the NPC system is supposed to weed out, but unfortunately it doesn't always.

[Angels&Arrows]

Originally posted by 33girl
But I'd like to know how many of these women in the "big 5" or whatever are really happy and close with their sisters, and how many of them are just sucking up their real selves because of the prestige.

Interestingly enough getting into one of these "big 5" has to do with who you know, what activites you were involved with, your grades and your RECS... most of the young ladies who pledge a strong chapter, at a strong southern school, went to school with the girls in the chapters, or mothers are friends at Jr. League, their fathers golf toghter, they were in the same Sunday School class, etc.

I did not go to an SEC school, but I did go to a mid-size southern school... and those girls who were looking for prestige, normally did not get a bid... because their sisters and their potential new sisters are very close...

[CutiePie2000]

Is it South Eastern Conference (just a guess) and if so, which specific universities are those?

[carnation]

The Southeast Conference--let me see...Auburn (yeah!), Arkansas (yeah!), Mississippi State (yeah!),Bama, Florida, LSU, Vandy, Kentucky, Georgia, Ole Miss, Tennessee, and South Carolina. But there are other large Southern schools such as Florida State and the University of Texas that have killer rushes..and some smaller schools too, as well as some non-Southern schools like Indiana.

33girl, your sweater analogy is perfect! And as the years go by, we'll have even more girls wanting "that certain sweater" because we'll have more legacies. I couldn't count the chapters I know of who always have more legacies than open spots.

[justamom]

33girl-." However, there are women who only want social position and prestige out of a sorority experience. And if that's all you are looking at groups with, you're a user, and a loser. If you want to be in a sorority that just happens to be the most prestigious on campus - because that's who you like the most and feel comfortable with - fine.
No way could I have said it better. Your entire post is on the money.
I don't think anyone can fully comprehend the reality of a competative rush unless you go through it. I had blow by blow descriptions and still am amazed that my daughter really enjoyed it! She was one of the fortunate ones who found true happiness.

GUESS WHAT! She just got back from a GREEK RETREAT! EVERYONE was represented IFC NPC NHPC (is there a male equivalent for IFC?) They were in Mississippi for the weekend. She went on and on about how much she learned. She was so impressed by the reps of NHPC and the way they do their "rush" and the fact that they "live" their ritual daily. Something she would like to see instilled in her org. OOPS should have made another thread. Oh well...

[shadokat]

I'd love to say I could argue this point, but with no SEC experience, I guess my argument doesn't really hold a lot of weight in this thread. I still believe though, that if you go through recruitment with an open mind, you can find the place you were meant to be in. I'm sorry for those who had awful recruitment experiences, and for all those legacies and qualified women who didn't get a bid where they wanted to go.

As 33girl said, I'm so glad I didn't go to a school with such a politically motivated system. I couldn't have asked for a more fulfilling and enjoyable sorority experience. Yeah, it had ups and downs and yeah, I didn't go to the strongest chapter on campus, even though I did go to their pref party. Who knows if I would've gotten a bid or not? But truly, I couldn't care less...I am where I was meant to go, and if I didn't believe that, I wouldn't continue as an alum to volunteer and bring all that D Phi E has to offer to collegiates.

*stepping off soapbox*

[TechAPhi]

Originally posted by carnation
All this is hard to picture if you went to a school where the sororities rush the PNM. It's a pretty safe bet to say that at SEC schools, the PNM has to impress the sorority.

I read most of this thread not really "getting" it. But the statements above finally encapsulated it for me. The schools I've worked with are nothing like these SEC universities, with their enormous numbers of legacies and the value that is apparently placed on being in the "right" group (however one defines that). I can't even fathom it, to be honest, but at least I can see where you're coming from now. Thanks Carnation!

[juniorgrrl]

Never once in rush did I think the sorority was trying to impress me. I went into it full well knowing that I had to impress them. There were 899 other girls out there to choose from.

There was only one sorority that didn't make quota at LSU. And they had the nerve to drop me (one of the involved people from high school with a 4.0) from formal AND informal (twice). I have no idea what they were looking for, but rumor is that nationals is living in-house this year. They still have a really high pledge attrition rate. *shrug*

Before I rushed, a friend of mine in a sorority told me "Don't worry, 200 girls know where you belong better than you do" While I understand she was trying to say that they could see if I would fit into their group, that really infuriated me. I went through rush feeling like the hand of fate was guiding it all - that I had no control over things. I also felt like she was priming me to be part of a groupthink mindset.

One major reason I dropped out of rush that day was because it finally gave me a feeling of control. For an entire week, I was told I was not good enough to attend the events of 8 out of the 10 groups on campus, after a brief 30 minute meeting. When I filled in the "withdraw" bubble on the scantron card, I felt empowered. I walked out of that room with my head high, feeling like I had finally taken control of the situation.

Granted, I think I could have been happy at the house that I had left for pref. However, I was just so tired of being told where to go, that I wanted to tell every last one of THEM where to shove it.

[tridelta4ever]

Amen, 33girl. Very well said.

Originally posted by 33girl
I know what carnation is saying - maybe XYZ is where so and so is meant to be, but when XYZ has 75 legacies with 4.0's come through the door, it might not matter. It's like if I see a sweater in the store that is perfect for me - if there are 10 of it in the store, and the other 10 people who want that sweater come in before me, I'm screwed. And it has nothing to do with me personally.

As far as joining "weak" chapters, or chapters that look like they are going to fold - it is all in what you want. I know some women who joined chapters that closed the semester after they pledged, and they wouldn't trade it for ANYTHING. They still found sisterhood and lasting friendships. It's like that line in Steel Magnolias - "I'd rather have 30 minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special." However, there are women who only want social position and prestige out of a sorority experience. And if that's all you are looking at groups with, you're a user, and a loser. If you want to be in a sorority that just happens to be the most prestigious on campus - because that's who you like the most and feel comfortable with - fine. But I'd like to know how many of these women in the "big 5" or whatever are really happy and close with their sisters, and how many of them are just sucking up their real selves because of the prestige. That's the women the NPC system is supposed to weed out, but unfortunately it doesn't always.

[ErikaXO]

I agree to a large extent WITHIN THE LIMITS OF MY OWN EXPERIENCE with the "ending up where you belong" thing. If anyone saw my post in the "Rush experts please reply" or whatever thread I do feel strongly that the chapters pretty much can tell who is going to fit in and who isn't. BUT.....

I think that in the South, it is just plain different. Sheer numbers make the difference. I would imagine that even the "weaker" houses tend to have girls who would be A-list anywhere else, just because there were too darn many of them. But what separates the cute little 4.0 cheerleader who made top tier from the cute little 4.0 cheerleader who didn't? That's where the difference comes in....that's where the sorority's "expertise" counts. Maybe there is a nuance in personality that just clicks better for one girl than the other.

As I mentioned in the other thread, we had a lot of girls at Kent who got stuck on one top-3 chapter when they really fit in better at a different one. Fortunately the chapters were strong enough that if a girl didn't get bid by her top choice, she generally took her bid and did very well at the other house, realizing that in personality/etc. she actually did fit better where she ended up. I think a lot of you saw my own rush story....I had a very hard time choosing between the 3 even til the end!!!!! I probably would have been equally happy anywhere.

But what of the girl who has decided that she is going to go to college and change her image? Maybe she was a really cute, nice, smart girl in HS but she just wasn't part of the in crowd. She has decided that she always deserved better and she's going to go to college and make everything different. Maybe she goes to a large school with a small top tier, a large pool of really great sororities that just don't have the "superstar" status of the elite few, and then a few "weaker" houses. She goes in with her mind set on one of the superstatus houses and gets cut from them all by the end of 2nd. She may be a perfect fit for several of the other chapters, GOOD chapters but not the megaselective ones. She says "ha, not for me" and drops out. This is a girl who has her priorities screwed up and who is not being realistic about herself. Let's face it....there are girls who go through rush thinking that they are going to join a house and it is going to make them popular, beautiful, and datable by the hottest richest guys. These are not the girls who belong where they think they do. If you go into rush for the purpose of getting an image overhaul, you are doing it for the wrong reasons. The girls who come in radiating a relaxed confidence are the ones who go top-ier almost every time.

I stand by what I said before, my line that got quoted again in this thread. But the difference is in recognizing if you really belong where you think you do or not. There are girls out there who are never ever going to get into one of the "best" houses and if they come in expecting to, they are going to be disappointed. On the other hand, there are girls who SHOULD expect it, and those are the ones who are the really tragic cases at places like the SEC schools.

Cutiepie, your post brought tears to my eyes. I know I would have felt the same way you did. I am so glad you eventually found your way into the chapter you loved....I am only sorry that you missed out on the collegiate part.

[ErikaXO]

Hard to believe I could have left anything out of that book I wrote above....but I forgot to mention one thing....I think that the stringent rules of panhel rush cause part of the problem especially at the big Southern schools. If the girls were allowed to talk to the members, and there wasn't so much hands-off attitude, maybe the chapters would have more of a chance to see the girls for real and make a more educated choice before the mass executions....I can only fault the chapters so much though. They are given such a short period of time to try and evaluate these huge numbers of girls, girls who are going to be a part of the sisterhood that means so much to them. They aren't allowed to talk to the girls on campus, they aren't even allowed to talk ABOUT them. They have to be choosy!!! The system just doesn't seem to be entirely effective.

[AchtungBaby80]

I go to U of K which is an SEC school, and I'm here to tell you it's heinous. I've been through rush as both rushee and rusher, and it's no better in either position. This past fall we had around 600 going through rush, I believe, and it's so so so hard to keep anyone straight much less figure out who would be best for my sorority. I still feel sorry for the poor rushees, though (pardon my un-PC terms, but I think the new ones are ridiculous). Even if I love a certain girl to death, she might not get to be my sister because I myself do not have a say in who gets invited back--that's all up to the "invitation committee", made up of four or five of our members. The other hundred girls in my chapter don't have a say, either, so I think a lot depends on sheer luck.

And whoever tells you that recs don't matter at big schools like this is plain nuts! On the registration forms for rush, PNMs are specifically instructed that it is not their job to obtain recs, because if they are required it is the sorority's responsibility to get them. (Heh?!?!?) So, being very green at this whole rush thing, I didn't have any recs sent in--although I would have had one for three or four different groups, and I wonder now if things would have turned out a lot different. I don't really regret pledging my sorority because I picked a good one (although the dynamics are changing fast, but that's another story), but I do wonder about it. So the moral of the story is, rush is NOT a good way to find out where each girl "belongs," but I can't complain too much because I don't have a good alternative idea. But I still stand by what I said before...that "you'll end up where you belong" is a bunch of baloney.

[AchtungBaby80]

Oh, I forgot something. There are many, many girls who get into the "elite" chapters (here, at least) just to say they belong. It happens quite a bit. I personally know several members of the largest sororities on campus who do not go to meetings, who do not participate in Greek events, etc., but they all carry their little lettered tote bags around. Most of the chapter houses here are the same size, and we always wondered how in the heck the sororities with over 150 members managed to fit in their chapter room when we outgrew ours around the 90-member mark...but we found out it's because a significant number of their members don't attend meetings. Someone made the point earlier that rush is supposed to weed these girls out but it doesn't--well, whoever said that, you're right!

[LexiKD]

Although I didn't attend a huge southern school, I have worked with many women that have and have many friends that went through at huge schools and although I cannot relate quantity wise I have some Panhellenic opinons.

Since I worked with PH for the 4 years I was at school and never saw Recruitment from the chapter side until last year as an alumnae I feel that no matter what you are looking for and no matter where you end up that it wouldn't make that big of a difference.

I love KD and know it is the group for me, but I would think I would be as happy in another group beacuse I would have made the best out of it as I have currently. Some PNMs have no idea what sorority life is really about and no matter what chapter you join all NPC groups have great experiences that she will enjoy and get the most out of.

I bet if you lined all PNMs up and split them into groups and assigned a chapter they would all be as happy as if they had gone through the process. At such large schools I cannot imagine how you wouldn't get lost in the choas. I am impressed by the manner the chapter women have it down to a science, something I would not be good at!