Cash or Card

[CkretCrush8]

Originally posted by Ideal08
When are we going to stop trying to conform and fit into their world. IT WASN'T MEANT FOR US! PERIOD! So why take a CLASS on social graces to fit into a world that wasn't meant for you? NEWSFLASH: It doesn't make a difference how poised you are, how classy you are, how articulate you are, how intelligent you are, you will STILL be judged by the color of your skin. So have fun in your social graces classes, I, for one, would not be in attendance.

Exactly, we can't be know one but who GOD called us to be. We are special in our own rights. When we realize who we are in ourselves, we won't conform to what "society" says that we should be, but we will transform into the person we were called to be. Besides, the way you act in a social setting all stems from how you were raised.

[DST Love]

Originally posted by Ideal08


Ok, I have serious issues with this. Blacks need one big lesson on basic social graces as determined by WHOM? I have no desire to learn how to act, shuck, or jive for my White counterparts. Nor do I have the desire to carry checks or credit cards based on their PERCEPTIONS (based in racism) of Blacks carrying cash. THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM. So because white people will think that a Black man carrying cash is a drug dealer, he shouldn't carry cash? Gimme a break. Money is green, and it all spends. While I realize that this is a White man's world, I still have no desire to conform to how they THINK I should act at the dinner table and in the store. If I go into a store and get turned away based on the actions of the Black woman who went before me, that is not a store I want to spend my money in anyway. Who deems what is appropriate and what is not?

Threatened with expulsion from her SOCIAL CLUB???? Oh my goodness, keep your shirts on, Hilary might not be able to socialize anymore!!! Oh no, the TRAGEDY!!! Why would you want to hang around with people who will expel you from an organization because you laughed too loud in the dining area?? Yeah, those are exactly the people that I wish to rub elbows with.

When are we going to stop trying to conform and fit into their world. IT WASN'T MEANT FOR US! PERIOD! So why take a CLASS on social graces to fit into a world that wasn't meant for you? NEWSFLASH: It doesn't make a difference how poised you are, how classy you are, how articulate you are, how intelligent you are, you will STILL be judged by the color of your skin. So have fun in your social graces classes, I, for one, would not be in attendance.

All this because a man paid for his purchase in cash? You say tomato, I say tomato. You don't like it, you don't have to do it. However, don't press your issues of how we are perceived by society on everyone and say that we all need to take classes in social graces. Gimme a break.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, Ideal08 (as usual ). This is exactly what I think. I believe one (of any race) should always behave in some sort of an "appropriate" manner but it doesn't have to be to the standards of society (white people). As my boyfriend and I say (and unfortunately we're both in Corporate America), Black people are so conditioned to believe that we have to act like, think like, believe like white people and coordinate our dreams to fit the standards of white people in order to be deemed successful, in good social standings, etc.

Below is an e-mail that I sent in response to Frank Ski (a DJ on V103 in Atlanta). He was doing a show on social etiquette and how Blacks don't have it, so to speak. His reply to my first e-mail was basically, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". Below is my response to him (and I think it is fitting for this thread as well).
And I am not directing this to anyone in particularly in this thread. Just expressing my general opinion.

'Well, while I agree with you that people should display some evidence of social etiquette, I do not agree in following all of white people's rules concerning it, which is what I believe you were or are doing. My grandmother would probably agree with you but then she is the same person who told me that I would have to play white people's games at work and in other areas of life in order to make things smooth. So like you, she was conditioned to believe that we cannot be who we really are in the presence of whites while still respecting them and others. It is that slave mentality that makes you, my grandmother and others believe that the natural ways or feelings of black people should not be exhibited in public. You know the phrase, "don't show your color". However as I have grown on my own, I have realized that you can maintain a level of social etiquette without losing yourself. This means that I am not going to perform (like some clown or entertainer) to the levels of whites or as you call them "Romans". Maybe you should start to question why you believe or do some of the things that you do and you just might find out that those are not your true feelings or beliefs and more so something you were "conditioned" to believe. I do not want you to think that I do not believe one should exhibit social etiquette because I do. I was raised right. But do not do things to the point of feeling uncomfortable just to fit in. When I was in college many people told me about certain rules of eating on recruiting and corporate dinners. Now, some of them are common sense table manners rules, however some are just ignorant and pointless. And it is funny because when I would be on recruiting dinners with black people they would be very loose and free in front of me yet still display good table manners. However, when we would be in the presence of whites they would become completely different. That, to me, sends the message that they do not believe they can be who they truly are in the presence of whites. I'll leave you with this, it's good to be aware of how Romans act, but keep in mind that you are not and never will be Roman. So when in Rome, act as you would in the presence of any other people but not as if you wish to be Roman.'

[Ideal08]

DSTLove, that was on POINT!!!!!! Two thumbs up, two thumbs up!!!

[novella000]

DSTLove girl, your post was potent, to say the least. You are exactly correct. You have also managed to widen the issue a bit... This thread reaches a bit deeper into our community than just the way we practice/perform our social skills.

Blacks in America are the only ones who can/do validate the assumption made by the general populous that we are socially "inept"... Unfortunately, the more we play into that the more we lose ourselves in the labyrinth of conditions and qualifications set by people who are nothing like ourselves. Our culture as Americans is so ill-defined because of our own lack of public backbone. Many of us have not learned to be ourselves in the presence of our diverse counterparts. The only clue we should take from "them" @ this point in our history is this: WE SHOULD SET and MAINTAIN OUR OWN STANDARDS. Don't bend and shift with the whims of others. Being yourself is what rewards you with the most gratifying forms of "respect."

There are some very valid and applicable rules of etiquette which, traditionally, derive from "white" society... DST Love commented on the rules of dining etiquette, for example. As she stated, there are ways to accomodate the "Romans" without losing yourself. But hey, once you become comfortable with yourself that's not tough to do. And it can be done with grace.

Originally posted by DST Love
I'll leave you with this, it's good to be aware of how Romans act, but keep in mind that you are not and never will be Roman. So when in Rome, act as you would in the presence of any other people but not as if you wish to be Roman.'

I am gonna hafta work that one into my Cliche' Comeback Library... I agree with you, Ideal, and 'Quiz as well. Wholeheartedly.

[Poplife]

Originally posted by exquizit
With that being said, can we step off our soapbox that we often love to jump on?

Well, you can always go to the next corner and listen to somebody else...

Having said that, I'm going to enjoy my Christmas in New York City where I will carry no more than $50 cash.

PEACE.

[volgirl2376]

I prefer to pay using cash or check. Its easier to keep myself out of trouble if I dont spend anything I dont have!

[darling1]

Ideal08,

I agree with you 110% Unfortunately we live in a time in which the good 'ol boy rules still apply. Like Poplife said it is sometimes those little things like knowing the proper social etiquette that will give you the type of career advance It may be the difference in you getting a much desired position or it going to someone else. This is all a game...a chess game if you will that Black people have to play if they want to reach a level that far surpasses their parents. We can deny all we want and try to live our lives without knowing these 'rules' or living by them but until we reach the type of power to make the decisions in this world, we unfortunately have to continue the game. And cannot live in this world thinking that we are not perceived or judged based on a stereotype. We need to be our brother's keeper in a sense and help each other understand that this life that we have is a game and understand the 'players' in it.


Lastly, Novella I too agree with you but I believe that those who are fully aware of themselves are also aware of the rules of society's game. But they are so comfortable with themselves that they can take that information and create their set of standards and truly be trendsetters.

[Poplife]

Originally posted by Ideal08
Ok, I have serious issues with this. Blacks need one big lesson on basic social graces as determined by WHOM? I have no desire to learn how to act, shuck, or jive for my White counterparts. Nor do I have the desire to carry checks or credit cards based on their PERCEPTIONS (based in racism) of Blacks carrying cash. THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM. So because white people will think that a Black man carrying cash is a drug dealer, he shouldn't carry cash? Gimme a break. Money is green, and it all spends. While I realize that this is a White man's world, I still have no desire to conform to how they THINK I should act at the dinner table and in the store.

Why do you equate having basic manners with being white? Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you part of the same group who had thread after thread talking about prospective who will never get your votes because they:

1. Showed up to rush in ‘club clothes’
2. Chewed and popped gum loudly during the whole event
3. Talked on their cell phones while you are making a speech or
4. Brought their children

But then why I call something tacky all of the sudden, I’m a wanna-be whitewashed elitist. (*lol* And last time I got on my soapbox I was accused of saying everyone with a relaxer wanted to be white and that only real blacks had naptual hair.) Well as you so eloquently put it Ideal08, perhaps they were expected to ‘shuck and jive’ in order to impress you and your sorors enough to vote for them. Or perhaps you expected them to know the basics of which they were not aware. Who do you blame for that? Who are you punishing because of that?

The fact that basic manners are universal still stands. It doesn’t have anything to do with color, class, or what one group thinks. I’m not stupid enough to think that all white people have class and all blacks do not. I never said that. Recently I acquired a job in a white town that makes the Forbes’s list every year. And even though they may have money many of them are white trash. They are nasty to the employee’s, yell loudly when they don’t like something, try and get freebies every time they come in...The list goes on and on. But I don’t care about them. I care about my people. If your parents never told you that in a white dominated society, you have to be better if you want to get by then you missed out on some important information. And I hope that you have learned that we all suffer for what one does. If you don’t mind being cut down because of what someone does before you than you are a nicer person than me.

If I go into a store and get turned away based on the actions of the Black woman who went before me, that is not a store I want to spend my money in anyway.

Oh, really? If that were true you would never shop at any major department store. Which retail chains have had racial discrimination charges filed against them in the last year? Do you know? Besides, half the time you are not aware of how you are being watched and followed. Black people enjoy not knowing. We claim we don’t like to be treated like animals, but we are the first people to drop our dollar in stores that do exactly that.

Threatened with expulsion from her SOCIAL CLUB???? Oh my goodness, keep your shirts on, Hilary might not be able to socialize anymore!!! Oh no, the TRAGEDY!!! Why would you want to hang around with people who will expel you from an organization because you laughed too loud in the dining area?? Yeah, those are exactly the people that I wish to rub elbows with.

No one was asking you if you liked the people she wanted to deal with. My point was: Don’t join if you don’t like the rules. Blatantly disrespecting the policy of a organization/club that you ASKED to join is TRASHY. Hil obviously didn’t understand that and was dealt with accordingly. Society is the same way.

When are we going to stop trying to conform and fit into their world. IT WASN'T MEANT FOR US! PERIOD! So why take a CLASS on social graces to fit into a world that wasn't meant for you? NEWSFLASH: It doesn't make a difference how poised you are, how classy you are, how articulate you are, how intelligent you are, you will STILL be judged by the color of your skin. So have fun in your social graces classes, I, for one, would not be in attendance.

I thought when 9.11 happened many of us realized that we, as humans, are more connected then we though, but obviously some people didn’t get that. Our world may have different components, aspects, and devices, but they all work together in a strange way to make ONE even though it doesn’t seem that way. This is a White-American oriented SOCIETY, not world. Even white people aren’t powerful enough to make their own world.

And, If you believe this world wasn’t meant for you then I suggest you skip my seminar and put your U.S. Passport to use immediately. There are places where you are seen as a female or an AMERICAN first and they don‘t give a damn about your ethnicity. Black women are sought after in some places for marriage, not just sex.

I used to believe that I would always be judged by my skin, but then I woke up realized it really depended on whom I was dealing with and where I was. I now believe to say such a thing means you know what is in everyone else's mind and heart everywhere. I don’t know how people are going to treat me. 9 times out of 10 I have to wait and see and then act correspondingly. Blacks are still treated as a mass by the ‘other’ mass, but as individuals people can really surprise me sometimes.

American white people are unlike any other groups of whites in the world (with the exclusion of the UK). In short, they are freaks. The world is mostly non-white anyway. There are plenty of places where blacks are not so far down the social scale. Many of these places don’t HAVE white people for them to be compared to so once again, it‘s not about always assimilation.

[novella000]

Originally posted by darling1
Lastly, Novella I too agree with you but I believe that those who are fully aware of themselves are also aware of the rules of society's game. But they are so comfortable with themselves that they can take that information and create their set of standards and truly be trendsetters.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Perhaps I wasn't clear...???

[PrettyPetite]

Originally posted by Ideal08


Ok, I have serious issues with this. Blacks need one big lesson on basic social graces as determined by WHOM? I have no desire to learn how to act, shuck, or jive for my White counterparts. Nor do I have the desire to carry checks or credit cards based on their PERCEPTIONS (based in racism) of Blacks carrying cash. THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM. So because white people will think that a Black man carrying cash is a drug dealer, he shouldn't carry cash? Gimme a break. Money is green, and it all spends. While I realize that this is a White man's world, I still have no desire to conform to how they THINK I should act at the dinner table and in the store. If I go into a store and get turned away based on the actions of the Black woman who went before me, that is not a store I want to spend my money in anyway. Who deems what is appropriate and what is not?

Threatened with expulsion from her SOCIAL CLUB???? Oh my goodness, keep your shirts on, Hilary might not be able to socialize anymore!!! Oh no, the TRAGEDY!!! Why would you want to hang around with people who will expel you from an organization because you laughed too loud in the dining area?? Yeah, those are exactly the people that I wish to rub elbows with.

When are we going to stop trying to conform and fit into their world. IT WASN'T MEANT FOR US! PERIOD! So why take a CLASS on social graces to fit into a world that wasn't meant for you? NEWSFLASH: It doesn't make a difference how poised you are, how classy you are, how articulate you are, how intelligent you are, you will STILL be judged by the color of your skin. So have fun in your social graces classes, I, for one, would not be in attendance.

All this because a man paid for his purchase in cash? You say tomato, I say tomato. You don't like it, you don't have to do it. However, don't press your issues of how we are perceived by society on everyone and say that we all need to take classes in social graces. Gimme a break.

Couldn't have said it better myself! My thoughts exactly!

Yes, my mother taught me 'the rules of the game'. She worked in corporate America for 25 years before changing into the field of education. I can go into an upscale restaurant and dine with the best of them. Hell, I even know how to purchase a bottle of wine, and which flavors complement what foods. I learned these things because I WANTED to.

But, as I said before, I will be damned if I will worry about what 'White America' thinks about me. I care about my people too, but I am not one to go and tell them that they need to this or that in order to be pleasing to white society.

I think that our people have greater issues to deal with, rather than worrying about what White America, or so-called socially adept Black Americans feel we need to do in order to make ourselves more socially pleasing to THEM.

Everyone, have a blessed holiday season.

PrettyPetite

[AlphaChiGirl]

Poplife, I've agreed with everything you've said. Stay up on that soapbox!

But, as for the check card being tacky...look. I go to school about 1500 miles away from my hometown (and therefore, my home bank). The banks serving my campus do not have plans which fit my financial needs (they have a balance maximum for students, they charge a high checking fee, etc.) and I need to use my home bank, which doesn't have these restrictions. I use my check card because not every place takes out-of-state checks with open arms, now do they? So, I use a checkcard, unless I'm paying my dues, which I like a paper record for.

Like someone said, when in Rome... Just because I can pay for something cash, because I live in the South, because I'm a black female, doesn't mean I will. Been a victim of department store and boutiques surveillance one time too many...

[aloving1]

Originally posted by Poplife
I care because whether you want to admit it or not, when one black person does something the rest following have to suffer. A black man in raggedy clothes pays $2,000 with rumpled bills which he pulled out of his coat pockets, pants pockets, and wallet. He looked like a damn drug dealer and I feel sorry for the black man who comes in after him.

Is this story for real or was it made up to spark conversation on a whole different topic? I'm just finding it hard to believe that a bumb/drug dealer just walked into a LV store and was rummaging through his pockets and just happened to find $2,100 in rumpled bills to pay for his special order from France. Moreover, I've never seen a drug dealer look raggedy.

To start with a story about a man paying in cash for merchandise and then asking which form do you use to jumping to blacks and how they are viewed in society. I'm just

Originally posted by Poplife
As bad as this sounds, I think blacks just need one big lesson on basic social graces.

So what did you say to him when you pulled him aside?


My mother always stated: if you aren't part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

[exquizit]

Originally posted by Poplife


Well, you can always go to the next corner and listen to somebody else...

Having said that, I'm going to enjoy my Christmas in New York City where I will carry no more than $50 cash.

PEACE.

Haven't you noticed I stopped listening long ago? I appreciate your thoughts and feelings though, so much respect. Have a Happy Holiday and a safe and joyful New Year.

[darling1]

Originally posted by novella000


Yes, that's exactly what I said. Perhaps I wasn't clear...???

no u weren't as clear as i thought. thanks for the correction .

[darling1]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by aloving1
[B]

Is this story for real or was it made up to spark conversation on a whole different topic? I'm just finding it hard to believe that a bumb/drug dealer just walked into a LV store and was rummaging through his pockets and just happened to find $2,100 in rumpled bills to pay for his special order from France. Moreover, I've never seen a drug dealer look raggedy.

To start with a story about a man paying in cash for merchandise and then asking which form do you use to jumping to blacks and how they are viewed in society. I'm just




I don't know what part of Virginia you live in but I have seen and known many drug dealers albeit petty ones that look quite raggedy. The fact that this thread as moved in the direction that it has is very appropriate. But perhaps you have been fortunate enough to not have to deal with institutionalized racism.