12-year-old tased by police officer

[christiangirl]

I work in a psychiatric facility and have been physically assaulted by children ages 4-17 and up to 6 feet tall (I'm 5'3"). I still am against using a taser on a child for multiple reasons ETA: unless that child is armed with a weapon and has clear intent to do severe harm to his/herself or another person.

The questions I have after seeing the news reports:

1. Was this a one-man arrest? I was under the impression that you would have back up or at least a partner present when trying to arrest a woman in a potentially crowded store so there should be another officer's perspective on what happened unless that's not protocol for SLPD (which is possible).

2. The girl had 2 taser marks--one on her chest and one on her stomach. What exactly was she doing that she needed to be tased twice?

3. Dejamon (not her mother) said she was tased at the store and at the police station; however, someone else should have seen that if it happened. Why hasn't a PD rep released a statement saying "X amount of personnel were present at the station and can attest that did not happen?"

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Fucking with a cop is far from being a "silly" behavior where kids are being kids.

That depends on what "fucking with a cop" means.

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Do you have any suggestions what the officer should have done, DrPhil?

Yes. What law enforcement officers did before tasers existed and what law enforcement officers do when they opt not to use tasers.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

And since some of you do not think this is a derailment or a mere clarifying the details, I again state that this thread is about a 12 year old child being tasered.

Kevin does not care about age. I do. I would like to read what other GCers think instead of reading about Charlene E. Bratton's charges and whether she is being completely honest about the details of what happened at Victoria Secrets. What is fact is that a 12 year old child was tasered by a police officer. No debate there.

Even if it is a "derailment," this is nothing new for Greekchat. As we usually say to new users who complain that people aren't answering their questions.. People can respond to whatever they'd like, however they'd like.

Just saying.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yes. What law enforcement officers did before tasers existed and what law enforcement officers do when they opt not to use tasers.

But there's clearly a reason why they have them - because whatever they were doing before tasers probably wasn't enough.

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That depends on what "fucking with a cop" means.



Yes. What law enforcement officers did before tasers existed and what law enforcement officers do when they opt not to use tasers.

That would mean using a baton on an extremity. Many Leos still opt for that. Is that better than a taser? And I'd say that interfering with a cop while he's arresting your mom qualifies as "fucking with a cop." Yes, it's sad and it may have been instinctual for her to protect her mom, but the situation could have gotten much worse had he not done it.

I'm surprised a witness didn't video the whole thing. I'm sure the store has security footage, but I doubt that gets shown publicly.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

But there's clearly a reason why they have them - because whatever they were doing before tasers probably wasn't enough.

There is a reason we have a lot of things. That does not mean those things are always the best choice.

Originally Posted by IrishLake

That would mean using a baton on an extremity.

No. But you already knew that a baton was not the only option before tasers existed.

[amIblue?]

I do not believe that a child should be tasered, unless as christiangirl mentioned, that child was armed. As DrPhil mentioned, situations such as this preceded the existence of tasers, so there are alternate ways of handling them.

A child is going to be very distressed witnessing a parent being arrested. Should she have stood back and not interfered? Absolutely, but the fact remains that she is a child whose brain is not fully developed yet who was tasered by an adult (whose brain should be pretty much done, I would hope.)

That being said, all of the articles that I found via google were told from the perspective of the victim. I would like to hear the police department's story and, even more so, from any witnesses on the scene.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Why hasn't a PD rep released a statement saying "X amount of personnel were present at the station and can attest that did not happen?"

The SLPD is unlikely to release any statement describing what happened or making any judgments about it until after an investigation is done.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

But there's clearly a reason why they have them - because whatever they were doing before tasers probably wasn't enough.

That doesn't really follow. Sometimes what they were doing before wasn't enough, but sometimes it was. And sometimes it was too much -- tasers provide a less dangerous alternative to using a gun or baton to subdue someone.

The question is whether it is ever appropriate to use a taser on a 12-year-old, and if it is, when is it. I tend to agree with cg that it's only appropriate if necessary to prevent the child from harming him- or herself or others, and then only when less drastic means won't work and when there has been a clear warning.

[justgo_withit]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

2. The girl had 2 taser marks--one on her chest and one on her stomach. What exactly was she doing that she needed to be tased twice?

Aha! My 30 second googling is of use!
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21430136/Taser-accuracy

(this is of course explaining how she could have two marks from one tasering in the store, and not touching the possibility that she was tasered at the police station)

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

I work in a psychiatric facility and have been physically assaulted by children ages 4-17 and up to 6 feet tall (I'm 5'3"). I still am against using a taser on a child for multiple reasons ETA: unless that child is armed with a weapon and has clear intent to do severe harm to his/herself or another person.

The questions I have after seeing the news reports:

1. Was this a one-man arrest? I was under the impression that you would have back up or at least a partner present when trying to arrest a woman in a potentially crowded store so there should be another officer's perspective on what happened unless that's not protocol for SLPD (which is possible).

2. The girl had 2 taser marks--one on her chest and one on her stomach. What exactly was she doing that she needed to be tased twice?

3. Dejamon (not her mother) said she was tased at the store and at the police station; however, someone else should have seen that if it happened.

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I do not believe that a child should be tasered, unless as christiangirl mentioned, that child was armed. As DrPhil mentioned, situations such as this preceded the existence of tasers, so there are alternate ways of handling them.

A child is going to be very distressed witnessing a parent being arrested. Should she have stood back and not interfered? Absolutely, but the fact remains that she is a child whose brain is not fully developed yet who was tasered by an adult (whose brain should be pretty much done, I would hope.)

That being said, all of the articles that I found via google were told from the perspective of the victim. I would like to hear the police department's story and, even more so, from any witnesses on the scene.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

That doesn't really follow. Sometimes what they were doing before wasn't enough, but sometimes it was. And sometimes it was too much -- tasers provide a less dangerous alternative to using a gun or baton to subdue someone.

The question is whether it is ever appropriate to use a taser on a 12-year-old, and if it is, when is it. I tend to agree with cg that it's only appropriate if necessary to prevent the child from harming him- or herself or others, and then only when less drastic means won't work and when there has been a clear warning.

I agree with these posts.

I think some of the articles present an unofficial account of what the officer claims happened. The official PD statement, if it is ever released, will be released after the investigation.

For those who believe a child of any age should be tasered, I again ask whether there are any boundaries when dealing with police policies, procedures, and discretion? If there are boundaries, what are the boundaries? If there are none, what are the potential issues with that?

[IrishLake]

amIblue, the NBC affiliate in St Louis has commentary from someone who claims to be a witness on their webpage. She says the mom and daughter were in a group of people known to be shoplifters in the mall.

She may be 12, but can a guy determine her age just by looking at her? I'm not saying a cop, I'm saying a guy. Most guys are terrible at knowing age just by sight. When I was 12, I certainly didn't look it, and usually that was intentional.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

amIblue, the NBC affiliate in St Louis has commentary from someone who claims to be a witness on their webpage. She says the mom and daughter were in a group of people known to be shoplifters in the mall.

She may be 12, but can a guy determine her age just by looking at her? I'm not saying a cop, I'm saying a guy. Most guys are terrible at knowing age just by sight. When I was 12, I certainly didn't look it, and usually that was intentional.

When you say commentary, do you mean the comments that any idiot with access to a computer can post? I doubt the credibility of anything I read in the comments section. If the news station interviewed someone and showed the interview on camera, then I would be more likely to give said commentary credibility.

The police officer may not have known she was 12, but she sure as hell doesn't appear to be anywhere near 18. If he's not bright enough to figure out that she is a child, then he's not bright enough to be a police officer.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

She says the mom and daughter were in a group of people known to be shoplifters in the mall.

This 12 year old child cannot win for losing, eh?

Originally Posted by IrishLake

She may be 12, but can a guy determine her age just by looking at her? I'm not saying a cop, I'm saying a guy. Most guys are terrible at knowing age just by sight. When I was 12, I certainly didn't look it, and usually that was intentional.

Following your logic, if age matters, yes I expect adults to be able to gauge age range if not the exact age. We would certainly expect a guy to know whether a female is a girl or a woman in determining whether to legally sex her.

I looked 12 when I was 12. When I tried to look grown, I looked like a foolish 12 year old with crappy lipstick and nail polish with a young body. LOL. Almost like those photos of Dejamon Baker.

I see nothing grown about Dejamon's photos beyond her beautiful shaved head.







That is one of the reasons I posted the photo of the 12 year old white girl on page 1. Does she look young and like a little girl? Does she look like she could fuck a cop up even if there was a claim that she was trying to keep an officer from arresting her mother? Appearance matters 100%.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

amIblue, the NBC affiliate in St Louis has commentary from someone who claims to be a witness on their webpage. She says the mom and daughter were in a group of people known to be shoplifters in the mall.

A comment on a TV station's website from someone who claims to be a witness? Not a lot of value as far as I'm concerned, especially since she gives "facts" that she would have to know (like the victim's age, which she says is 15, or that the mom was being arrested on drug charges, which I though had been debunked in this thread) somehow other than being a witness. My guess is she's repeating what she heard others in the mall say.

It's pointless for us at GC to speculate or argue about whether the taser use was justified here because (take your pick) the mom was being arrested on drug charges, they were with a gang of known shoplifters, the girl assaulted the officer or whatever. We don't have enough facts to make any reasonable judgments about any of this, and we're not likely to get those facts from sources currently available on the net.

I think that's why DrPhil keeps saying this thread is about whether it's ever okay to use a taser on a 12-year-old, and if it is, when is it okay? The question of whether the specific facts of this case show that it was or wasn't okay under whatever criteria people suggest will have to wait for another day when we have all sides of the story and fully-developed facts. (If we ever have those, that is.)

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This 12 year old child cannot win for losing, eh?



Following your logic, if age matters, yes I expect adults to be able to gauge age range if not the exact age. We would certainly expect a guy to know whether a female is a girl or a woman in determining whether to legally sex her.

I looked 12 when I was 12. When I tried to look grown, I looked like a foolish 12 year old with crappy makeup and a young body. LOL.

I see nothing grown about Dejamon's photos beyond her beautiful shaved head. That is one of the reasons I posted the photo of the 12 year old white girl on page 1. Does she look young and like a little girl? Does she look like she could fuck a cop up even if there was a claim that she was trying to keep an officer from arresting her mother? Appearance matters 100%.

(I'll agree the shaved head style is beautiful).

As for the white girl, yes she looks young and like a little girl. And yes, she looks fully capable of fucking with a cop if he were arresting her mom (not fucking up a cop).

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I think that's why DrPhil keeps saying this thread is about whether it's ever okay to use a taser on a 12-year-old, and if it is, when is it okay? The question of whether the specific facts of this case show that it was or wasn't okay under whatever criteria people suggest will have to wait for another day when we have all sides of the story and fully-developed facts. (If we ever have those, that is.)

Thank you.

Originally Posted by IrishLake

As for the white girl, yes she looks young and like a little girl. And yes, she looks fully capable of fucking with a cop if he were arresting her mom (not fucking up a cop).

Would it be okay for a police officer to taser her if she did not have a weapon?