Latinamerican joining Fraternities

[knight_shadow]

Right.

Let's not address these topics as they come up, lest we become Angry Black Posters. Never mind that our experiences were reduced to being less than the "real" experiences.

[knight_shadow]

Neither of the replies that you quoted were directed at the OP. In fact, before those replies were made, we told the OP that he may have been confused with the language he used.

That said, if "your chapter consists of non-Americans" is the criteria he's looking at, what do bands and sorority exchanges have to do with anything? It's obvious that he's looking for a specific type of experience (his choice has absolutely no bearing on me, so I don't care where he ends up), but to say "he doesn't want to be in an ethnic GLO" in the same breath as "the traditional experience has nothing to do with race" is silly.

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

It's obvious that he's looking for a specific type of experience (his choice has absolutely no bearing on me, so I don't care where he ends up), but to say "he doesn't want to be in an ethnic GLO" in the same breath as "the traditional experience has nothing to do with race" is silly.

I could not disagree more. There are some people who pursue a particular GLO no matter what umbrella organization purely because of race, that's obvious. However, if you want a specific type of experience often times only one type of group can provide it. If he wants to live in a large house and throw big parties with enormous sets and hang out with sorority girls all days (the way he has likely seen it in the movies and TV), then of course he doesn't want to be in an ethnic GLO because they don't provide that experience. I can't think of one that does, and even if there are some they are obviously extremely rare. For example, despite Greek letters and some similarities, an NPHC GLO is going to vastly differ from an IFC fraternity (yes I know there is some overlap with some fraternities) the most deeply rooted organizational structural/cultural aspects (the increased focus on community service, the heightened sense of membership lasting your entire life, membership intake vs. rush) to the most superficial (step shows, probates, line numbers and jackets). That is enough to eliminate that type of GLO from some people's minds even before race becomes a part of it.

To say that just because of the correlation between race and GLOs (which I understand the historical and social reasons for completely) that somebody who is looking at just one type of GLO is doing it for racial reasons is very assumptive and not exactly fair.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

I could not disagree more. There are some people who pursue a particular GLO no matter what umbrella organization purely because of race, that's obvious. However, if you want a specific type of experience often times only one type of group can provide it. If he wants to live in a large house and throw big parties with enormous sets and hang out with sorority girls all days (the way he has likely seen it in the movies and TV), then of course he doesn't want to be in an ethnic GLO because they don't provide that experience. I can't think of one that does, and even if there are some they are obviously extremely rare. For example, despite Greek letters and some similarities, an NPHC GLO is going to vastly differ from an IFC fraternity (yes I know there is some overlap with some fraternities) the most deeply rooted organizational structural/cultural aspects (the increased focus on community service, the heightened sense of membership lasting your entire life, membership intake vs. rush) to the most superficial (step shows, probates, line numbers and jackets). That is enough to eliminate that type of GLO from some people's minds even before race becomes a part of it.

To say that just because of the correlation between race and GLOs (which I understand the historical and social reasons for completely) that somebody who is looking at just one type of GLO is doing it for racial reasons is very assumptive and not exactly fair.

Tell me how "your chapter is full of non-Americans" translates to "I want a fraternity with huge parties, sorority mixers, and a big house." The OP has a strong enough grasp of the English language to say "I want an experience like I saw in the movies." That's not what he said.

Either way, the posts you referenced in your previous reply were 1) correcting folks that thought that discussing this topic = OMG YOU'RE RACIST FOR NOT CONSIDERING US AND WE ARE OUTRAGED and 2) cutting through the bullshit PC nonsense.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

I could not disagree more. There are some people who pursue a particular GLO no matter what umbrella organization purely because of race, that's obvious. However, if you want a specific type of experience often times only one type of group can provide it. If he wants to live in a large house and throw big parties with enormous sets and hang out with sorority girls all days (the way he has likely seen it in the movies and TV), then of course he doesn't want to be in an ethnic GLO because they don't provide that experience. I can't think of one that does, and even if there are some they are obviously extremely rare. For example, despite Greek letters and some similarities, an NPHC GLO is going to vastly differ from an IFC fraternity (yes I know there is some overlap with some fraternities) the most deeply rooted organizational structural/cultural aspects (the increased focus on community service, the heightened sense of membership lasting your entire life, membership intake vs. rush) to the most superficial (step shows, probates, line numbers and jackets). That is enough to eliminate that type of GLO from some people's minds even before race becomes a part of it.

To say that just because of the correlation between race and GLOs (which I understand the historical and social reasons for completely) that somebody who is looking at just one type of GLO is doing it for racial reasons is very assumptive and not exactly fair.

Dude, may be ignorant and not up to date on American ethnic history, that's fine. But he emphasized that he himself was white in the OP, and didn't want to join a "latino only" frat or a "foreigner frat" but a "stereotypical" frat. To pretend that race isn't at least something of an issue here is silly, particularly since he equated "African American" with "Non-American" considering AA is pretty exclusive to the US. He didn't want a group with "non-americans." Yeah we know what he's looking for, it's obvious.

No one's said that it was inappropriate for him to look for that type of fraternity. None. He was rather gently mocked for his missteps, and informed that we couldn't tell him jack shit about what some random GLO on some random campus would think of him.

Where precisely did he need defending? Or was it stated that it was inappropriate? And it's not that DrPhil or K_S need my help here, by any means, but where did you think it made sense to try and explain racial issues to them?

Also, the idea that for the majority of people, they look at the increased focus on service, or the stepping in NPHC orgs "before race becomes an issue" is laughable at best.

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Also, the idea that for the majority of people, they look at the increased focus on service, or the stepping in NPHC orgs "before race becomes an issue" is laughable at best.

Not remotely what I said. I said that somebody who is saying "I don't want to join a multi-cultural/NPHC/service etc. GLO" doesn't necessarily mean they do not want to associate with that race. They may just want an experience that those GLOs can't offer.

Obviously somebody joining a GLO with a specific racial focus values that racial identity. But I often see people saying that by joining an IFC/Panhellenic GLO you are implicitly saying you want to associate yourself with white people since they are historically white. I disagree with this, since if you want to join a GLO with the stereotypical experience your only options likely are predominately white.

We had a couple members who strongly identified with their cultural/ethnic backgrounds first and foremost who still joined our fraternity because it offered something that GLOs targeted to their specific ethnicity/culture could not. For example, one member used our fraternity as his social outlet, and then used other organizations for his cultural outlet (both a cultural dance team and an assembly of students with similar backgrounds). Of course there are members who want to join an IFC fraternity so they can assimilate with "white" culture and leave their culture behind out of shame. But I'm just saying that by joining an IFC/Panhellenic GLO you are not automatically assimilating and rejecting your own cultural heritage. You may just be using different organizations for that purpose and want to experience a more stereotypical Greek experience.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

Not remotely what I said. I said that somebody who is saying "I don't want to join a multi-cultural/NPHC/service etc. GLO" doesn't necessarily mean they do not want to associate with that race. They may just want an experience that those GLOs can't offer.

Obviously somebody joining a GLO with a specific racial focus values that racial identity. But I often see people saying that by joining an IFC/Panhellenic GLO you are implicitly saying you want to associate yourself with white people since they are historically white. I disagree with this, since if you want to join a GLO with the stereotypical experience your only options likely are predominately white.

We had a couple members who strongly identified with their cultural/ethnic backgrounds first and foremost who still joined our fraternity because it offered something that GLOs targeted to their specific ethnicity/culture could not. For example, one member used our fraternity as his social outlet, and then used other organizations for his cultural outlet (both a cultural dance team and an assembly of students with similar backgrounds). Of course there are members who want to join an IFC fraternity so they can assimilate with "white" culture and leave their culture behind out of shame. But I'm just saying that by joining an IFC/Panhellenic GLO you are not automatically assimilating and rejecting your own cultural heritage. You may just be using different organizations for that purpose and want to experience a more stereotypical Greek experience.

This is all well and good, but the OP specifically brought up race as an exclusionary factor.

[Elephant Walk]

I'm not sure why you're so troubled.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I'm not sure why you're so troubled.

Perp.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Nobody here can tell you what chapter will or won't give you a bid, but you can get an idea by doing some research. When you go to the websites and look at the photos, are there any non-white dudes?

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

When you go to the websites and look at the photos, are there any non-white dudes?

That wouldn't apply here since the OP claims he's Caucasian. The OP should search the forum for threads relating to international students rushing/joining IFC Fraternities.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

That wouldn't apply here since the OP claims he's Caucasian.

I don't know how I missed that completely. When you said he was a white Latino, I thought you were speculating and inferring from his posts.

Doh!

***
I'm glad the OP realizes that he was (not just sounded) ignorant and is now owning up to and challenging his ignorance. I know that people have a difficult time expressing themselves and their words (in real life and Internet) can be misinterpreted. But, I also firmly believe that people often say exactly what they mean the first time they say it. It is only after others' responses that they might regret what they said, considering the tone and meaning. People like to think of themselves as progressive, polite, and whatever else. They may regret that they expressed their prejudices and a particular tone and meaning but that doesn't mean that it isn't exactly what they meant the first time. Such is life.

[BAE]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I'm glad the OP realizes that he was (not just sounded) ignorant and is now owning up to and challenging his ignorance. I know that people have a difficult time expressing themselves and their words (in real life and Internet) can be misinterpreted. But, I also firmly believe that people often say exactly what they mean the first time they say it. It is only after others' responses that they might regret what they said, considering the tone and meaning. People like to think of themselves as progressive, polite, and whatever else. They may regret that they expressed their prejudices and a particular tone and meaning but that doesn't mean that it isn't exactly what they meant the first time. Such is life.

In this case, I did mean what I said the first time, however, I wrongly gave a slightly racist aura to it, which was not at all my intention. So yes, after seeing the others responses, I saw the stupidity in parts of my posts. But other parts were just expressed incorrectly.

As for not being able to give me information on houses because you do not know where I will be studying, chances are, I will be going to the University of Michigan to study if it is any help. I have looked at a few of the pictures from the fraternities like another poster said, but I still could not find out how each fraternity's members would be in person, or their views.

[lucgreek]

Originally Posted by BAE

In this case, I did mean what I said the first time, however, I wrongly gave a slightly racist aura to it, which was not at all my intention. So yes, after seeing the others responses, I saw the stupidity in parts of my posts. But other parts were just expressed incorrectly.

As for not being able to give me information on houses because you do not know where I will be studying, chances are, I will be going to the University of Michigan to study if it is any help. I have looked at a few of the pictures from the fraternities like another poster said, but I still could not find out how each fraternity's members would be in person, or their views.

You'll be fine at Michigan, provided you aren't a generally unlikeable person. Rush at Michigan isn't competitive and people are very accepting.

[28StGreek]

I know this is a bit late to the debate. And the OP seems to now have his questions answered. I am just wondering if perhaps there was a misunderstanding over the term 'Latino'. Someone described as Latino in the US would mean something to Americans, but since the OP is actually from Latin America perhaps he thought joining a 'Latino Fraternity' meant joining a fraternity started and for (international) Latin American students. That may just sound like a National Society club to the OP, i.e. The Peruvian Students Association. Which is why he may have specifically said "American" fraternity experience.

From my experience, I think America is quite unique in ethnic minorities saying they are "Ethnic Group-American". In the UK people would say they are English, Irish, Welsh or Scottish rather than say they are British. And in Asia, I have heard people say they describe themselves as Chinese or Indian (meaning their race) rather than their nationality. People didn't say I am Indian-Singaporean or Chinese-Singaporean, etc.
I may never have been to the OP's country of origin (forgive me if he mentioned it and I missed it), but that may very well be the case there.

(to the OP, please don't take this comment as if I am insulting your intelligence in not knowing the difference in terminology, I am genuinely interested in knowing the extent of the (mis)understanding)

This is purely a question of interest. I have noticed international students asking questions about rush, and saying they are international students when they are actually international exchange students (on a semester-abroad). Which would be quite different from an international student who was going to be at their American university for 3-4 years.

[bold text: edited to improve wording]