Private Pool Bans Minority Campers - Page 3

Little32 · #1 07-13-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This may be true for some children but we can sometimes underestimate children's observations of race related incidents (and other things). They are not stupid and can sense when they are not welcome, especially if they are not real small. Also in the child's interview (the one that was crying) he expressed that he and the other children heard the members saying "why are those black kids in the pool?" I'm sure he had an idea as to why they were saying that. The bottom line is that some or all of those children will remember that they weren't welcome or wanted because of the color of their skin and that is indeed a very powerful message that can in fact be traumatizing for SOME children. I experienced blatant racism for the first time when I was just 7 and it stuck with me for a long time (I can still remember it in detail today) and it did shape my perceptions of whites for a long time until I got older and matured, so no one can predict how this incident or others might affect children.

Exactly. Children are much more perceptive than most folks give them credit for. For those of us who have experienced racism, we remember it with great clarity to this day, even though there were no reporters interviewing us about the incident and plastering our faces everywhere. (I, for instance, was first called the n-word in first grade. And I remember to this day how it made me feel and my response to it.) Let's not try to write off or minimize the impact of the experience of racism (whether perceived or actual) that this event will undoubtably have in some of these children's lives.

Kevin · #2 07-12-2009, 10:24 PM

KEVIN does not have much to add to what DrPhil said.

/bobdole

Additionally though, I wonder what the value is for the media, parents, etc. to put these kids through the trauma of even thinking they may have been racially discriminated against (when that may not even be the case). Kids need to be able to just be kids and if they can be sheltered from something like racism for just awhile longer, that might contribute to a happier childhood. Kind of like believing in Santa Clause.

DrPhil · #3 07-12-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

KEVIN does not have much to add to what DrPhil said.

/bobdole

Additionally though, I wonder what the value is for the media, parents, etc. to put these kids through the trauma of even thinking they may have been racially discriminated against (when that may not even be the case). Kids need to be able to just be kids and if they can be sheltered from something like racism for just awhile longer, that might contribute to a happier childhood. Kind of like believing in Santa Clause.

I can see that.

In general, minorities sometimes feel that people have to learn sooner rather than later. There isn't but so much sheltering from these types of things.

These kids may have already experienced some things. My first experience with racism was by the time I was in the 1st or 2nd grade.

DaemonSeid · #4 07-12-2009, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

These kids may have already experienced some things.

EXACTLY...that's why I wondered where Kevin got that from and why you felt a need to add to it.

These kids may not be as 'traumatized' as you think.

Will it shape their opinion of non blacks? most likely yes.

Will it 'scar' them for life? most likely not.

It's not a trauma...it's LIFE.

Just like everything else kids learn at an early age, this is another.

As long as there has been a palapable difference over how non Blacks felt towards Blacks...kids were an easy target for shaping of their opinions...it's been going on for centuries and from what just happened, it's not stopping anytime soon.

DrPhil · #5 07-12-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

EXACTLY...that's why I wondered where Kevin got that from and why you felt a need to add to it.

These kids may not be as 'traumatized' as you think.

Will it shape their opinion of non blacks? most likely yes.

Will it 'scar' them for life? most likely not.

I was typing to KEVIN.

DaemonSeid · #6 07-12-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I was typing to KEVIN.

I know you were and I felt free to give my opinion...see?

Kevin · #7 07-12-2009, 10:39 PM

Right on, be that as it may, if they still believe in Santa Clause, why spoil it? Y'know?

DrPhil · #8 07-12-2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Right on, be that as it may, if they still believe in Santa Clause, why spoil it? Y'know?

Haha...not like you can compare the two but I definitely see where you are coming from.

We agreed that the adults should shelter them from the rest of this stuff. They couldn't shelter the kids from the initial experience. Maybe some adults in their lives are trying to shelter them. We wouldn't expect the media to do so.

Little32 · #9 07-13-2009, 01:02 PM

Shultzzz, who is too much of a coward to post in the actual thread, please do not send me any more stupid pms. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shultzz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little32

Exactly. Especially when you have members of the club contradicting all of the other claims, "overcrowding" and such.

It broke my heart a little to read this:

Day camp member Araceli Carvalho, 9, said she was upset when told she wouldn't be allowed to return.
"I said, 'That's not right,'" she said.
But when asked if she wants to return now, she said, "I don't want to swim here anymore."

This is how little children respond to racism, by closing themselves off from possibilities as a defense mechanism, to protect themselves from further rejection. This is how these little acts take a long term toll.

Is that any different than the campers having contradicting opinions?

PS. Who destroyed the the free pools in the black neighborhoods?

DrPhil · #10 07-13-2009, 01:16 PM

Congratulations, Little32 for being targeted by a troll. That means you're cool.

Little32 · #11 07-13-2009, 02:03 PM

See, this was a discussion worth having.

I thought about some things in a way that I had not thought about them before, anyway.

DrPhil · #12 07-13-2009, 02:04 PM

Once people got beyond the shock and the horror of it all.

Little32 · #13 07-13-2009, 02:27 PM

I guess just based on what I have read, it seems like the camp is making the decisions. But I would have to know more about the camp to really say.

I think the parents going along with the kids is a good idea, though. If the group chooses to return to the club.

DaemonSeid · #14 07-13-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little32

I guess just based on what I have read, it seems like the camp is making the decisions. But I would have to know more about the camp to really say.

I think the parents going along with the kids is a good idea, though. If the group chooses to return to the club.

Theoretically speaking (and we can't pretend to know what these parents are thinking) I would tend to believe that when your money is involved in something important (your child) the entity will not make a decision without parental consent first.

I don't think they would rush to go back there without meeting with the parents first and even then, just like the one example in the article I posted, not all of those kids will be returning.

DrPhil · #15 07-13-2009, 04:08 PM

To be clear, being a member of an all-white establishment does not mean that all of the members know that nonwhites are intentionally and formally excluded.