Results of 2006 APO Convention.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Empress0105

a frat house is not just a house that official letters painted on the side...here at hu, a "frat" house is any location where everyone in that residence is a member of said org...they function as more unofficial frat houses, pardon me for not expounding on the technicalites of what is and is not a frat house

Fair enough, here is what the Alpha Phi Omega Standard Articles of Association says:
SECTION 15. HOUSING POLICY. As a Service Fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega does not operate nor
maintain a fraternity house as lodging quarters for Members nor for any other persons. A Chapter may
maintain rooms for meetings at the discretion of its Members.

Originally Posted by Empress0105

and sorry, but race is an issue....the culture of greek life at hbcu's is simply plainly different than at non-hbcu's. now the only difference i see between hbcu's and non hbcu's is the racial makeup of the majority of those students.......

I think the split has to do more with two things: History of the HBCUs which leads to a culture more likely to support the NPHCs and secondly, the dominance of the social environment of the University by the NPHCs. A school like West Virginia State University which is an HBCU, but whose current enrollment is 80% white will only have some of those characteristics.

Originally Posted by Empress0105

i do have a question...how many all female chapters of apo are there? will they be forced to recruit male memebers and show that good faith effort?

I'd split this two ways...
For chapters that have had significant numbers of both genders in the past and are just "down on their luck" in numbers and the 4 (to pick a small number) left happen to be of one gender.. They would just get advice/suggestions on recruiting in general, one of which might be having brothers (of both genders) from another chapter help at rush tables to help recruit. That's something that has been true for quite some time.

For chapters that have never had men, as far as I know only two chapters of Alpha Phi Omega chartered with no men: Carlow College and Cedar Crest College. Both of these chartered within the last 15 years and at least at the time had no men living on campus and a small number (<5%) taking classes. I have no idea if they have had male brothers or not. What's key is if they've ever made an effort to exclude male brothers (which would greatly surprise me).

The closest comparison would probably the Alpha Phi Omega chapter at Wabash College, which is currently an all-male school (and thus an all-male chapter). My *guess* on what would happen should the school go co-ed would be that the Regional Director would be very surprised (and perhaps even hesitant) with female brothers the first year that Wabash has women. The Regional Director would probably only become interested in "good faith efforts" after the school was co-ed for 2-3 years *and* the percentage of women at the school was greater than 20%. If the percentage of women on campus remained at below 10% indefinitely, I could imagine the chapter remaining all-male for *years*.

Out of the 14 currently active APO chapters that have not admitted women, none of them are at schools with more than 60% men in the enrollment (ranges from 26.5% at Maine-Machias to 58.8% at Drexel). On the other hand, the APO chapter at the Citadel (school currently 91.7% male) may have had periods with no women brothers after the school went co-ed.

This isn't about forcing a chapter to have members from both genders, it is about having gender no longer being a criteria used to exclude. I know that Gender and Race aren't equivalent, but imagine the following: Alpha Phi Omega was like those social greeks that up until the 1960s only admitted whites. In 1976 Alpha Phi Omega allows blacks to join, but allows chapters to remain all-white if they want to. The fraternity decides to enforce allowing blacks to join all chapters. A chapter at University of Georgia that was all-white would be forced to show good faith effort that they were recruiting from all-races, but the chapter at Maine-Farmington (school 97% white) might stay all-white without deliberately doing so.

Originally Posted by Empress0105

my opinion isn't going to change, but all i can do is work that much harder to continue to spread MY service organization across the land as aggressively and stubbornly as i see alpha phi omegans spreading theirs


good day!

Amen!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by gamma_girl52

Lamar no longer has a colony of GSS. They were disbanded in Fall 2006. Just wanted to correct that. Fort Valley doesn't have any service sororities. There were a few attempts to re-activate the Gamma Sig chapter there though.

Thank you for the information. I don't know if it would be worth contacting Kappa Alpha Kappa at Maine-Machias to see if they were interested in affliating.

[GrandAce#1]

Originally Posted by Empress0105

....i also said that i am not in apo, so what i say amounts to a hill of beans.

i do have a question...how many all female chapters of apo are there? will they be forced to recruit male memebers and show that good faith effort?

it's funny how you mention the support we've gtten from you, trust me we are thankful and grateful....but where was everyone when there were APO chicks threatening me and my LSs? when they came to our informational in letters to tell us we would fail? when they came to MY probate and disrepceted us? when they tell people not to rush GSS and slander us in thier recruitment tactics?

No disrespect, but you may take it that way, but if you know your opinion doesn't amount to anything, then why continue to throw it out there or even be bothered by this? Also, part of the ruling references that APO chapters do there best to represent the DEMOGRAPHICS of their campus, which many are not doing because they are all male, and if the chapter is all female on a co-ed campus, they are to actively recruit also.


As far as your anger and concerns go in reference to female bothers of APO at Howard "coming at you sideways", that I have no knowledge of. I personally am friends, good friends, with a few of the rechartering GSS members a Howard and wished them well when they informed me of what they were planning to do.
Realize that there will always be adversity when an organization outside of Pan Hell tries to come into the picture at HBCU's. It's over and done with. Lick the wound and move on. We had adversity from Phi Sig and all the male Pan Hell groups even though many of us were friends with numerous people in those org's. They felt threatened. Obviously the bruhs who you speak of felt that way also. Especially when you're always being told, as a female bruh, that you don't belong, or that you should've rechartered GSS at the same time you were rechartering APO.

I am no longer an undergrad at Howard, but if you have such an issue with this "great divide", why not reach out to ALL the members of APO when you hold joint chapter events? I understand some things may be specific to "2552", but what's wrong with starting a new initiative?

Otherwise, If you have no problems with the divide issue, well then, keep doing what you do...just stop whining about it when the female bruhs don't "show you any love." They don't have to. There are not "2552". They're not bound to that unity.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I feel this ruling is long overdue. This initiative should have been taken the moment the Frat decided to become co-ed. Maybe then we would not face some the issues before us now.

Hell, I've even had to handle a few "bruhs" down at FAMU because I had my letters on while visiting my brother. It is what it is though.

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by naraht

The closest comparison would probably the Alpha Phi Omega chapter at Wabash College, which is currently an all-male school (and thus an all-male chapter). My *guess* on what would happen should the school go co-ed would be that the Regional Director would be very surprised (and perhaps even hesitant) with female brothers the first year that Wabash has women. The Regional Director would probably only become interested in "good faith efforts" after the school was co-ed for 2-3 years *and* the percentage of women at the school was greater than 20%.

This particular chapter is about a hour and a half away from me, so I'm quite familiar with them. They actually have a female advisor, and in my discussions with brothers from there, they'll go co-ed when the campus goes co-ed. Being that they're the only all-male chapter in the region of 44 chapters, they're quite used to being around co-ed APO.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by GrandAce#1

We had adversity from Phi Sig

Not to be dumb but which Phi Sig would that be? There are a few in the Greek world.

[Diva06Sweet]

wow yall really blew this up
i guess i can see both sides espically after coming and seeing them chicks at howard *that would be apo chicks*

i come from a place where the aye phi ques are all male... no chicks... none
nadda nix

it is sad to see that apo wants to get rid of all male chapters

hell i would take it back to '76 and say the pretty much threw gss under a bus with allowing women in the frat to begin with
but i digress

i can see how apo having women does effect gss
but its what ever at this point
apo does not care what they do to gss....

[GrandAce#1]

Originally Posted by Diva06Sweet

wow yall really blew this up


i can see how apo having women does effect gss
but its what ever at this point
apo does not care what they do to gss....

Not to be cruel...but once again...APO doesn't have to care. We are not bound organizations (i.e. zeta phi beta, phi beta sigma). APO on a national level does not recognize GSS. Also, some APO chapters do not recognized gss as their sister org and have different org's, such as sweethearts, as their "sisters". Like someone said before, these "insignificant BOYS" in the chapters and the organization has everyone on both sides fooled.

FYI, GSS on Howard's campus back in the day were held second fiddle to APO sweethearts...looks like history in repeat to me.

[GrandAce#1]

Originally Posted by Diva06Sweet

i guess i can see both sides espically after coming and seeing them chicks at howard *that would be apo chicks*

i come from a place where the aye phi ques are all male... no chicks... none
nadda nix

it is sad to see that apo wants to get rid of all male chapters

hell i would take it back to '76 and say the pretty much threw gss under a bus with allowing women in the frat to begin with
but i digress

I'm not sure what this--->*that would be apo chicks* <------ refers to, but for now I'll just say it's not trying to insult me, so I'll be easy.

It's not necessarily "getting rid of male chapters". It's demographics along with issues. APO is ALL INCLUSIVE, it's in our bylaws. And if our bylaws also state APO accepts female members, an all male chapter on a co-ed campus that does not recruit females members are in violation of our bylaws. POINT. BLANK. PERIOD. If these male chapters did not have such disrespectful ways about them (I know some don't) towards the NATIONAL APO STANDARDS, they truly may have been left alone.

I personally have no beef with all males chapters, I'm secure in what organization I belong to. The day they can take my letters and revoke my membership is the day they "might" get me to shake in my boots...lol

As far as your reference to 1976 and how little APO cares about GSS, please see my above response to your other half of this post.

[GrandAce#1]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Not to be dumb but which Phi Sig would that be? There are a few in the Greek world.

My fault. Phi Sigma Pi. They go by Phi Sig on campus.

[Diva06Sweet]

Originally Posted by GrandAce#1

Not to be cruel...but once again...APO doesn't have to care. We are not bound organizations (i.e. zeta phi beta, phi beta sigma). APO on a national level does not recognize GSS. Also, some APO chapters do not recognized gss as their sister org and have different org's, such as sweethearts, as their "sisters". Like someone said before, these "insignificant BOYS" in the chapters and the organization has everyone on both sides fooled.

FYI, GSS on Howard's campus back in the day were held second fiddle to APO sweethearts...looks like history in repeat to me.

sweetheart i already know that alpha phi omega dont give a rats furry butt about gss... your not hurting my feelings
i dont know you nor do you know me i suggest you back off me

[Diva06Sweet]

Originally Posted by GrandAce#1

I'm not sure what this--->*that would be apo chicks* <------ refers to, but for now I'll just say it's not trying to insult me, so I'll be easy.

It's not necessarily "getting rid of male chapters". It's demographics along with issues. APO is ALL INCLUSIVE, it's in our bylaws. And if our bylaws also state APO accepts female members, an all male chapter on a co-ed campus that does not recruit females members are in violation of our bylaws. POINT. BLANK. PERIOD. If these male chapters did not have such disrespectful ways about them (I know some don't) towards the NATIONAL APO STANDARDS, they truly may have been left alone.

I personally have no beef with all males chapters, I'm secure in what organization I belong to. The day they can take my letters and revoke my membership is the day they "might" get me to shake in my boots...lol

As far as your reference to 1976 and how little APO cares about GSS, please see my above response to your other half of this post.

why are you over here?
lol i find it amusing your getting upset about gamma sig in the gss forum
as i said before i like my frat brothers *the ones with a penis* of aye phi que
the chicks can kick rocks for all i care...

buh bye sweetpea

[gamma_girl52]

The whole thread is out of control.

GrandAce#1, let me address you first by saying this. It may not be that the National Fraternity is trying to "get rid" of chapters but purely as an outside person looking in, IT DOES. When you have to literally put out a change of bylaws (a mandate) saying, "Either you get some females in the chapter or your charter is revoked", does that not look like "forcing" a chapter to adapt to something that might not work for them on that campus? You should go click on the link that was provided in the thread earlier. Initially, this only applied to TRANSFER students. Then it was expanded to include ALL students. All this for maybe about 4% of your chapters, and the members represent maybe about 2%? It just seems a bit much for me. Are these said chapters literally putting a "Alpha Phi Omega, NO GIRLS ALLOWED" sign up on their campus? Or did the National organization TRULY make an effort to understand why this was happening on that respective campus? It might be so on that campus where the women KNOW not to pledge an organization with "Fraternity" in the name. Also, what if this chapter did everything they could to promote this mandate and they STILL don't get any women? Should their charter be revoked then?

As far as your other statements, sister, you are preaching to the choir and we've already discussed just how much APO and GSS care about each other, which is little. However, let's not ignore the fact that there is a bond out there between APO and GSS. Now if you really want me to go there, let's not talk about how I see male AND female members of your fraternity trying to "be down" with the same culture that may have caused this mandate (i.e. calling each other "bruh" or using the call "Skeet", etc. which I only USED to see at an all-male chapter). So obviously there is something appealing about that culture to some of the members, particularly with black males that may have pledged at a co-ed chapter; so I also have to raise an eybrow when you say, "APO doesn't have to care". Are you sure?

It's not just with the fraternity. I see members of Gamma Sig doing the SAME THING. I don't want you to think that I know everything about your organization; I don't. But let's be real and recognize the changes that are occuring in both our organizations.

Soror Empress if you ever jump back in, I was able to speak to another soror and I understand your point much better now.

So I think the bottom line is this: Alpha Phi Omega is doing their thing obviously. You all wouldn't be the largest fraternity in the world if you weren't. But Gamma Sigma Sigma, we are coming into our own, we stand on our own as well. Neither needs the other, but there is a connection that you can choose to support or not.

[GrandAce#1]

Originally Posted by Diva06Sweet

sweetheart i already know that alpha phi omega dont give a rats furry butt about gss... your not hurting my feelings
i dont know you nor do you know me i suggest you back off me

LMAO...fa real? Slow your roll. I saw this linked somewhere else. Didn't know it was GSS's "private" forum. Nor do I care. Just tried to help clear things up....since it was my fraternity's business being discuss.

Don't worry...not trying to be down with you...I'll kick rocks...guess where they'll land. Yeah. Be easy chica...no one wants to be "on you"...TRUST. LMAO...forum beef...I'm not asking you to like me nor and I trying to get you to like me. Where in my posts am I getting upset with GSS? I was replying to individual comments made.

Why can't people just take things for what they are without getting into their feelings anymore? What is the world coming to? Used to be a day one could express their opinion on the internet without someone feeling like they got played and in retaliation decide to "type a threat". LMAO

I'm taking in just as much as I'm giving out in this discussion...not trying to argue. That' not necessary because then I would learn nothing.

[GrandAce#1]

Originally Posted by gamma_girl52

The whole thread is out of control.

GrandAce#1, let me address you first by saying this. It may not be that the National Fraternity is trying to "get rid" of chapters but purely as an outside person looking in, IT DOES. When you have to literally put out a change of bylaws (a mandate) saying, "Either you get some females in the chapter or your charter is revoked", does that not look like "forcing" a chapter to adapt to something that might not work for them on that campus? You should go click on the link that was provided in the thread earlier. Initially, this only applied to TRANSFER students. Then it was expanded to include ALL students. All this for maybe about 4% of your chapters, and the members represent maybe about 2%? It just seems a bit much for me. Are these said chapters literally putting a "Alpha Phi Omega, NO GIRLS ALLOWED" sign up on their campus? Or did the National organization TRULY make an effort to understand why this was happening on that respective campus? It might be so on that campus where the women KNOW not to pledge an organization with "Fraternity" in the name. Also, what if this chapter did everything they could to promote this mandate and they STILL don't get any women? Should their charter be revoked then?

As far as your other statements, sister, you are preaching to the choir and we've already discussed just how much APO and GSS care about each other, which is little. However, let's not ignore the fact that there is a bond out there between APO and GSS. Now if you really want me to go there, let's not talk about how I see male AND female members of your fraternity trying to "be down" with the same culture that may have caused this mandate (i.e. calling each other "bruh" or using the call "Skeet", etc. which I only USED to see at an all-male chapter). So obviously there is something appealing about that culture to some of the members, particularly with black males that may have pledged at a co-ed chapter; so I also have to raise an eybrow when you say, "APO doesn't have to care". Are you sure?

It's not just with the fraternity. I see members of Gamma Sig doing the SAME THING. I don't want you to think that I know everything about your organization; I don't. But let's be real and recognize the changes that are occuring in both our organizations.

Soror Empress if you ever jump back in, I was able to speak to another soror and I understand your point much better now.

So I think the bottom line is this: Alpha Phi Omega is doing their thing obviously. You all wouldn't be the largest fraternity in the world if you weren't. But Gamma Sigma Sigma, we are coming into our own, we stand on our own as well. Neither needs the other, but there is a connection that you can choose to support or not.

I agree, it sucks they literally had to write that information out specifically. And I also agree that if a chapter cannot convince any females to join their chapter should not be revoked. I have no issues with all male chapters that show respect to all bruhs. Not at all. And "bruh" actually is in used in any fraternity to address members, including co-ed one's. It's not exclusive to all male APO org's. I've known numerous co-ed org's to use the term since everyone is a "brother". I say bruh for short sometimes.

I'm not disagreeing with how it looks. Hell, I even was shocked they actually wrote the mandate in that manner. The point I sought to make was "what it was" so that those who only knew what it looked like could also know what it was. That's it. For the choir members, I was not trying to preach to you at all. Forgive me if you felt you were being "beat over the head with the bible", lol. My bad.

Did the organization truly make effort? Not sure. In my opinion more could've been done. But at the same time I do see why they played the hand they did. It's hard to keep trying to be open and understanding about something when the people who are in it don't want to be completely honest with the organization about the issues at hand. Only time will tell if this mandate was a good idea or not. Even though some of these school don't put up signs that say "no girls allowed", unfortunately some do say that to females trying to join, literally. That's moreso the issues the Frat has with the all male chapters...its based in respect for the brotherhood and organizational standards.

Ditto about the call thing...I'm not even gonna go there. People do as they so choose, even if it makes them look foolish. "APO doesn't have to care" was in reference to the national level choosing to do or not to do something based on the way it will affect GSS, and that in turn was directed at a particular comment, not your organization.

BTW...I'm not saying members of APO and GSS don't care about one another...just not on the national level. I care a lot about GSS members and I have much respect for the organization...SHOUT OUT TO THE CHARTERING OF HOWARD'S CHAPTER...THEY'RE OFFICIAL!!

[Empress0105]

Let me go by saying my name is Terri White. 16-Alpha Eta-2004.


*I* am a reactivating member of GSS at howard (I'm glad some of you know my LSs)...in fact *I* was the reactivating president. *I* personally was told by both male and female members of APO that I would be beat up if I conintued with this, and *I* stood outside of my interest meeting listening to letter clad APO chicks tell me my org was going to fail. I watched as the same org that had just faced flack from the Alpha and Ques cause flack for me and my LSs....it's funny how time forgets....I know names and specific events, if you like I can PM you and tell you.


but


second fiddle to APO sweethearts?? maybe you haven't talked to your own alumni recently, but to be a APO sweetheart pretty much was a stepping stone to do gamma sig or a D9 (as so many of the non D9 at Howard have become...don't front, you know why so many people ruch Delta Sigma Pi and Phi Sigma Pi.....or join campus pals or circle k....etc)i don't know what warped twisted history you all have been fed, but that was not the way sweethearts worked back in the day at HU...REGARDLESS of the org, so your statement is null void. question, does that mean that our noble nights of maroon and white were trumping in on your alumni?? cause there are SEVERAL NKOMAW pictures in Bison yearbooks...and we still have Knights to this day (in fact, more than 30)

maybe you should visit mooreland springarn and just look at old year books....better yet, ask swygert about his days as an a phi que...cause MY chapter charterers and alumni have many pictures and scrapbooks showing him and countless other bruhs at picnics and service projects TOGETHER with gamma sig....the main project they worked on was volunteering at a now defunct orphanage that used to be near campus...but then again, that's becaue alumni from ALL generations of Alpha Eta come back and support us....50s 60s 70s and 80s......Alpha Eta is the chapter that brough GSS it's first (if not only) African American "Woman of the Year", and notable soror Jessye Norman (SP64) BEFORE she did SAI or AKA. so please, as a howardite, don't ever question Gamma Sigs role and function on HUs campus...cause if you WANT the history lesson, I will gladly guide you to our next informational...


please, i know PLENTY of APO chicks (hell my cousin was one), and those that were my friends before we joined greek stuff are still my friends.....but i have heard both men and women in APO downplay GSS and the culture of being a gamma sig ever since high school (when I was talking to a young man who was an APO from another local school...see you are gonna have me log onto my old collegeclub account and remember his name!!) so yeah, I give APO the sideways glance when it comes to co-ed ness...I still remember a very specific APO chic who contacted our national officers trying to say we were wearing the shield as a colony (good thing I talked to sharon almost everyday so she knew that as bogus) hell...even when one of them became Pan Hell, she and her anti-GSS recruits talked mess on us in the edcation sessions of her D9 org....cause SEVERAL of my friends on that line told me about that.....


for all the men on here....the ones who call me and my sorors "soror" and want us to call them "bruh"...you can't play both sides of the fence...you can't be all about 25/52 but then tell us that you don't have to care about us in the next breath....you can't roll up to the picnic sans female brothers where you know chic APOs will get the weird looks, but then tell us we are wrong for thinking we have a bond with ya'll....i would have no problem calling a chic my bruh....but when that same chic will go and tell a prospect that GSS isn't anything, then yeah, i have an issue with that. i had one person tell me that my call was a ghetto remix of an AKA and Delta call.....yeah, and she was zeta phi. and for everyone who says we aren't officially brother and sisters, yeah we know....but tell that to the deltas and the ques, and the alphas and akas, sai and sinfonians.......just cuase there isn't an official bond doesn't mean a brother and sisterhood doesn't exsist...maybe just not at YOUR school


and like i said.....this APO topic was posted in my GSS forum (that someone obviously thought meant something to us as the org that isn't affilated and you all don't care about remember), so even though my opinion doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, when it gets posted in my neck of the woods, expect an answer.....