What to tell overconfident PNMs

[HQWest]

Just to throw in from experience as an advisor, the awkward call avoids a lot of hurt feelings on the part of alumnae. Sometimes the national sorority requirements are lower than the chapter or campus requirements, and in that case it is better to release the legacy.

I do think - in a chapter that had fewer legacies than some, it was helpful to be able to ask the chapter women to allow the legacy to decide whether she wanted to pledge or not if she didn't "fit" with the chapter, by saying that we did not want to disappoint their mom or sister. We usually reminded them about how would they feel if it was their sister going through. We also got some really great women that were shy during recruitment but awesome sisters.

In the chapter that had more legacies than quota (number of chapters was large but quota was low (@24) and it was an old well-regarded chapter), girls going in had an idea that a legacy was an added plus but not a sure thing.

You also have to consider that different NPC groups have different standards of what constitutes a legacy. Some recognize cousins or aunts and some only sisters and mothers. It would not hurt for the NPC groups on campus to put out a statement to the PNMs that defined this ahead of time.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Quote = # women at prefs/# sororities, right?

Logically, then, no such thing as 'can't take them all'.

Even one chapter. Granted, I don't understand sorority life at chapters of 200+ members, either, but when your pledge classes are over 100 women, is it really mathematically impossible to pledge all your legacies? Has it ever happened that more legacies than the chapter could take listed that chapter as #1?

I also understand not wanting a pledge class that is all legacies. Or even a majority legacy.

Now, as a sister of a 20-woman chapter at a geeky private school in the 70s, and an alumna who recommended my daughter not rush at Texas, I recognize I'm out of the mainstream. What I fail to understand is how that changes the math.

Newbies who come to GC and make a statement like "there were too many women for the sororities to take them all" are rapidly corrected. Why is this legacy statement promulgated?

Well, right now Alabama has 2500 women registered. Divide that by the 16 sororities participating in formal and you have 156. I have absolutely no problem believing that there are (for example) 200 women whose mother, grandmother (which you have at least two of) or sister (which you can have many of) is a Pi Phi among those 2500.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Well, right now Alabama has 2500 women registered. Divide that by the 16 sororities participating in formal and you have 156. I have absolutely no problem believing that there are (for example) 200 women whose mother, grandmother (which you have at least two of) or sister (which you can have many of) is a Pi Phi among those 2500.

I could see that for a couple of chapters there. Or try any school in MS for Delta Gammas. We were founded in MS and often have close to a pledge class worth at any of the 3 schools there.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Well, right now Alabama has 2500 women registered. Divide that by the 16 sororities participating in formal and you have 156. I have absolutely no problem believing that there are (for example) 200 women whose mother, grandmother (which you have at least two of) or sister (which you can have many of) is a Pi Phi among those 2500.

This.

And to add to what everyone else has said:

Another reason why phone calls may eventually become obsolete: Too many legacy connections for one PNM. I'm in my early 30s, and my grandparents were born in the 1920s/1930s when NPCs were still relatively new and many women weren't attending college. My mom attended a school with no NPC sororities.

As the years go on, there will be more and more PNMs with more and more legacy connections. A much higher percentage of women are now attending college. NPCs are opening between 2-7 new chapters each year. A record number of PNMs are signing up for recruitment at schools across the country.

What happens when a PNM has two grandmothers, a mother, and two sisters who were all in different NPCs? And what about those groups that consider aunts, cousins, etc. as legacy connections? Do you really think they'll each feel that they're owed a phone call?

[carnation]

Legacywise, the ADPis, Zetas, and Phi Mus are covered over in the Southeast. Maybe Chi Os and KDs to a lesser extent.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I know that I've been quietly reading on this, but let me add this:

My ADPi little sister has three daughters, twins who decided not to go through recruitment, and one who wanted to do so (at VTech). LS hasn't even seen an Adelphean for years, but she decided to let me know HALFWAY THROUGH RECRUITMENT!! I asked if LSD (couldn't resist Little Sister's Daughter) had recs, and LS told me, "she told them that she was a legacy." ACK!!! With her permission, I contacted the Chapter Advisor, and got in touch with other wonderful NPC ladies who immediately did so for LSD, too. LSD is a wonderful young woman, with so many skills, it's amazing, and managed to get all the way until prefs, where she didn't get the invitations to neither of the sororities where she felt comfortable, and dropped out of Recruitment.

This is SO HARD for me, because she had it. She got through all but one round (with ADPi). While I'm not positive (due to membership selection reasons), I am 90% positive that LSD was seriously crippled by not having a FULL legacy rec (yes, ADPi was one of her desired GLOs). Her mother wasn't familiar with the necessity of recs at VTech because our chapter rarely got them. She hadn't been receiving the Adelphean, so she didn't hear it there.

I cannot imagine taking Physics 201 without taking the entry level classes first - don't let a PNM go through Recruitment without Recs! Just because the school says that they are unnecessary doesn't mean that they won't help a PNM immensely!

I can only hope that LSD gives it another try...

As an update, LSD did go through Recruitment the following year, this time with a full load of recs. She fell in love with Pi Beta Phi, and got the bid of her choice. So, she did have a happy ending, and graduated this spring.

But there is one other comment I wish to make. When LSD's mother & I were actives, a 5-generation legacy went through Rush. She didn't want to go Greek, but was forced to do so - and showed it. We talked to our Advisor about her, and were told that we had no choice. She did pledge, but was initiated at Convention, then fell off of the radar. Maybe it's for the best - but I can't help but wonder if there's a 6-generation legacy about to sign up for Recruitment...

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

This.

And to add to what everyone else has said:

Another reason why phone calls may eventually become obsolete: Too many legacy connections for one PNM. I'm in my early 30s, and my grandparents were born in the 1920s/1930s when NPCs were still relatively new and many women weren't attending college. My mom attended a school with no NPC sororities.

As the years go on, there will be more and more PNMs with more and more legacy connections. A much higher percentage of women are now attending college. NPCs are opening between 2-7 new chapters each year. A record number of PNMs are signing up for recruitment at schools across the country.

What happens when a PNM has two grandmothers, a mother, and two sisters who were all in different NPCs? And what about those groups that consider aunts, cousins, etc. as legacy connections? Do you really think they'll each feel that they're owed a phone call?

The one with the closest connection to the particular group gets the call...and it's her responsibility to let the other relatives in THAT group know. And the purpose of the call is two-fold: as a courtesy to the member and so that SHE can call the PNM and let her know rather than have her hear it from her Rho Chi. Sorry, we Southerners are old school....

[IndianaSigKap]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Well, right now Alabama has 2500 women registered. Divide that by the 16 sororities participating in formal and you have 156. I have absolutely no problem believing that there are (for example) 200 women whose mother, grandmother (which you have at least two of) or sister (which you can have many of) is a Pi Phi among those 2500.

Originally Posted by Titchou

I could see that for a couple of chapters there. Or try any school in MS for Delta Gammas. We were founded in MS and often have close to a pledge class worth at any of the 3 schools there.

Or try Kappa Alpha Theta at Indiana University or Purdue University. Theta was founded at DePauw, IU is the Beta chapter. There are a ton of Theta legacies at most Indiana universities. One of the years I was a collegian, there were over 100 Theta legacies and our bed rush pledge classes ranged from 30-55. Easily more than enough Theta legacies for two or three pledge classes.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Titchou

The one with the closest connection to the particular group gets the call...and it's her responsibility to let the other relatives in THAT group know. And the purpose of the call is two-fold: as a courtesy to the member and so that SHE can call the PNM and let her know rather than have her hear it from her Rho Chi. Sorry, we Southerners are old school....

Never said you weren't. And I understand the reasons behind it. I just don't know that it will matter that much to the mom, grandmother, etc., or to the PNM in the future as much as it has in the past.

Just saying.. things might change.

[1964Alum]

Chi Omega also has enough legacies at some schools for 2-3 pledge classes. Our legacies now are only daughters and sisters of Chi Os.

[ARKTTKA]

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

Chi Omega also has enough legacies at some schools for 2-3 pledge classes. Our legacies now are only daughters and sisters of Chi Os.

Definitely the case at Arkansas - Hoot Psi

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by Titchou

the purpose of the call is two-fold: as a courtesy to the member and so that SHE can call the PNM and let her know rather than have her hear it from her Rho Chi.

I understand that this is one of the perceived benefits of contacting the legacy relative, but this approach has always rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it's because my school didn't have any sororities I had a legacy connection to, but I would have been really irritated if a family member who wasn't involved in my rush experience had called me to deliver such news. I'm southern and went to a southern school, so it can't all be cultural.

It seems to me that the best person to deliver that kind of news is someone who is currently actively involved in that rush. We (NPC) go out of our way to create a vacuum-like environment for recruitment. Why do we 'break the seal' for this?

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Well, right now Alabama has 2500 women registered. Divide that by the 16 sororities participating in formal and you have 156. I have absolutely no problem believing that there are (for example) 200 women whose mother, grandmother (which you have at least two of) or sister (which you can have many of) is a Pi Phi among those 2500.

Originally Posted by Titchou

I could see that for a couple of chapters there. Or try any school in MS for Delta Gammas. We were founded in MS and often have close to a pledge class worth at any of the 3 schools there.

I knew I had to be missing something. I have zero experience with multi-generational greeks and, as I said, did not even try to persuade my daughter to rush at UT (though later, when I inquired via email about COB, I got what I considered to be a rude and condescending response from the chapter representative; we were approaching the question from two very different frameworks).

So I can see that sometimes this is the case. Not as often as it's seemingly presented here, but sometimes. Thank you for clearing it up. I wish it weren't presented here as being so common, but I understand better.

[BlueCarnation]

When I was cut from my (grandmother's) legacy sorority, they called my Grandfather --presumably because he gave money to the organization every year and she had passed away many years earlier. This, to me, was odd. I was fine with being cut--I knew I would be--and he was fine with me being cut. I would assume they had been told they had to call him, because it was not my Grandmother's chapter and I certainly didn't write anything other than her name and affiliation on my form. And this wasn't even the South!

As a collegiate, I dealt with with some very irate parents. We had two chapters on our campus that appealed to a very specific group of girls and we often had 3 times as many legacies from those chapters as could fit in a pledge class. It happens all over.

[phoenix16]

Several things (I spent the last hour reading through the thread):
My chapter in a large Greek system is considered "undesirable" by PNMs and we often get ones who feel that it is beneath them to even talk to us for a short period of time. We have had some PNMs bring sisters to tears. It can get nasty.

The stories about PNMs lacking discretion also hits home, because we have a long lunch break during most days of recruitment and as a winter recruitment school, we often don't have our letters visible. Groups of us will go out for lunch (I often run into friends in other chapters) but the PNMs are out too. I have heard some terrible statements about chapters, both mine and others, while the PNM was surrounded by actives! During the actual rounds, we had one PNM say she was passionate about starting a "fat camp." We thought this was a ploy for her to get out of visiting our chapter again, but apparently she told every chapter this! She was serious! I don't know what happened to her, but I imagine it offended many of the chapters.

Final comment, we had a legacy issue because someone did not want to make the phone call to her relative. She was downright strange, but she was not released because of the phone call. In the end, she caused a lot of hurt and tension in the chapter, so now phone calls are considered if necessary.