Too fat to recruit: or, DePauw, the Sequel

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

Kind of oddly, I came across the same stats while I was looking for something else today.

Certainly, I don't think that most people who are Greek has an SEC-type recruitment experience, but as a percentage of total members, since the competitive Greek systems are usually also some of the largest, you can't really assume that because they make up a relatively small percentage of campuses that they also make up an equally small number of members.

Or put another way, one Auburn university with 800 girls pledging cancels out several more moderately sized campuses.

It's hard to say conclusively since we have that 22% of campus quotas unaccounted for, and we don't know what the average quota size is at the campuses where it's bigger than 30.

(It's a little weird to think about, but the SEC alone probably mints 7,000 new NPC members a year. Then you have the big competitive recruitments in other regions, and the number of Greeks overall who can relate to the weirdness of competitive recruitment could be lot higher than you'd first think.)

If we really want to geeky, we could look at the recruitment dates thread and figure the approximate percentages of members coming from each kind of system.

ETA: I was that geeky, and before my eyes glazed over, I realized that there were too many quotas not listed to be able to tell. But here's what I'd guess: the 19% of campuses with 30+ new member classes make up around half of all NPC members. (but of course, we don't really know that 30+ quota really equates with "really competitive.")

Adding to this, my campus had a quota of 50(ish) and I wouldn't consider it competitive. So there are definitely larger quotas out there on non-competitive campuses. Just a point of information. Y'all can get back to what you were doing.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

C'mon, you know it's not that black/white. Chapters forced to make this type of decision did not get to that point because of a couple overweight girls.

Yeah, I was going to say, let's get a grip here. Your chapter's destiny will not be decided by whether or not you have one overweight girl in the room.

As far as the actives having an obligation to keep the chapter going - when you graduate, you leave that chapter in the actives' hands. You have to trust them and the decisions they make. I think their obligation is to do what they feel is right, not sell your soul just to keep the chapter going. Like Tippie said, I'd rather see my chapter close than come back and see girls I'm ashamed to be associated with who were pledged just for the sake of numbers, or hear that shady stuff is going on just so we can do well at rush/Greek week/what have you.

[SkiingSister]

Okay, I have watched this thread and kept quiet. I agree with a lot of what others have said about superficial PNMs.

Preface: I am not stick thin, nor obese, just me, size 10-12 American Woman.

No one has yet to say that:

WE LIVE IN AN OVERWEIGHT SOCIETY

You can search the web, listen to the news, whatever. It is no secret. I couldn't find exact percentages for 18 year old women. But, we all know that all over America, we have a weight problem, SEC or not.

Admittedly, no one wants to join to "fat chick" house. But, I remember a sister of mine who was thin and 6 feet and told the anorexic blond popular house during rush that her father was in "waste management" so she wouldn't get invited back. Her father actually had a different job, so, yah she lied, but, you get the point.

By having these weight standards and removing the fat chicks, greeks are further enhancing their elitist image and distancing themselves from the true reality of our society. Instead this could be an opportunity for greeks to step up.

I see a lot about legacies, daughter, sisters, nieces, and other PNM going through recruitment that they judge houses, let alone people, based on weight.

What are we doing to teach our legacies, daughters, sisters, nieces, and other PNM not to judge houses, let alone people, based on weight?

We can say it is just their age, but, it starts somewhere, not necessarily at home, but, somewhere.

As for the SEC, ironically, this is one of the most overweight regions in the country. This link is dated but will do the trick; http://obesityusa.org/subs/fastfacts/obesity_US.shtml

Sorry to offend anyone.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by SkiingSister

WE LIVE IN AN OVERWEIGHT SOCIETY

Off topic (sue me):

Did anyone see America's Got Talent Tuesday night and see the group that performed Lady Marmelade??? They were excellent, confident, and pretty women, even for being overweight. I didn't really care for their costume choice, but other than that, I would have been excited to rush any of those girls.

ETA: If you missed it, there's a video of them on NBC's website right now. Worth checking out, these are some seriously talented ladies.

[carnation]

A few years back, the sociologist Mary Pipher said, "Obesity is the new leprosy of the nineties." I think many people viewed it as such before, only I swear to you all that back in the day, you hardly saw obesity in college kids. If you did, it was some big old couch potato boy.

We did not deal with that issue when I was in college because it absolutely never came up. This is a recent development in college life.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by SkiingSister

WE LIVE IN AN OVERWEIGHT SOCIETY

While this is definitely true, you would never know it if you were looking solely at rushees at my school. When I rushed, I wore a size 12-14... and I was by far the largest girl in my rho chi group and bigger than most of the girls I spoke to during recruitment. Even when I lost weight and thought I was skinny at a size 8, I was still bigger than a lot of the rushees (and my size 0 and 00 roomies).

Here's an example of how teaching legacies not to judge still doesn't fix the problem: My sister is going through recruitment at a competitive school in August. I have given her several lectures about keeping an open mind because I know this school has a couple of chapters who have reps for being "smaller" for various reasons including weight. She totally agrees with me that she wants to keep all of her options open so she has the best possible chance of a happy ending, but when she went to orientation, she met several boys who (as incoming freshmen) were saying they would never hang out with XYZ or ABC girls because they are the "fat girls" (or so the boys heard at fraternity summer rush functions). She came home and told me this, and her response was basically "Well, I know of a few jerks I'm not going to date in college" (she's been trained well). But how many 17-18 year old girls would listen to that and think "Well, then I don't want to pledge there," you know? For God's sake, they're practically still high schoolers when they rush, and "reputation" is important in high school.

The point is that no matter how well-trained our little southern ladies are, it's easy to get swept up in gossip when you're a TEENAGER, which the PNMs are. Even if you aren't judgemental of people by weight, say you're preffing three awesome chapters, all pretty equal in your eyes, and one is the "fat house" on campus... would anyone CHOOSE to be in the "fat house" over a house that doesn't have a negative rep? Or say you're preffing a house with a negative rep and even if the girls are nice, you don't think you want to have to defend yourself and your house for four years... is that being judgemental of larger people or just recognizing that you don't want to be known as a member of the "fat sorority" anymore than you want to be known as a member of the "druggie sorority" or any other group with a negative rep?

There is a difference between only wanting to be in the "Barbie" house and NOT wanting to have to hear people say "Oh, you're an XYZ? But you're so SKINNY... I thought they were the fat girls!"

[adpiucf]

I am starting to really dislike this thread.

No, national officers should not pull someone off the floor on basis of her physical appearance. Again, however, we don't know the full story. I think it would be very easy for me to scream discrimination and sexism if a male co-worker got a promotion I thought I deserved more, or if, in a series of layoffs, male counterpart was kept and I was let go-- in reality, there could be any number of reasons.

Secondly, the target demographic for the majority of undergraduate sororities are 17-22 year old women from middle class-upper middle class households. Go out and talk to a teenage girl for a few hours. It will be a conversation punctuated with "likes," "ums," rampant text messaging, a discussion about the mall, cute boys in her class, the popular girls, "Do I look fat in this?", her friends, her fears, and more "likes," "ums" and rampant text messaging.

Her peers influence her music tastes, clothing preferences, how she styles her hair and her overall body image. Teenaged girls are obsessed with body image. They tune out their parents, teachers and other adults who tell them to be themselves and to judge people for being "beautiful on the inside."

Have you ever tried to reason with an 18-year old? Have you been successful un-brainwashing her from the stereotypes she sees in people like Paris Hilton, Britney, Lindsay? Teens emulate what's popular and shun what's not.

I agree recruitment should be about picking the people who are "beautiful" inside, and the women's parents, sorority national leaders, etc., should guide them to making good decisions. And they do the best they can. But at the end of the day, we're still dealing with teen aged girls.

SEC recruitment is superficial. It's competitive. The SEC is ok with that. I'm ok with that. Got it? Can we please move on from this topic? I feel like we're all talking in circles.

[Ilaria Ame]

while i don't agree with you, i do agree that this thread should just frazzlin die already.

[33girl]

This is yet another one of the reasons I'm such a proponent of deferred rush. I think a lot of women would approach rush differently if they had a semester (at the least) to get to know the sorority members as people in everyday situations. Maybe they've heard the reputations more, but maybe they've also met women from the sororities who've helped them form their own opinions.

I got into a serious relationship my first semester in college. I thought it would be like high school - date a couple months, move on. Wrong. This guy wanted to get MARRIED. I think a lot of pre-freshmen who rush approach it the same way - it's like high school. It's not.

[modorney]

A lot of the fraternities have developed fitness as part of their overall pledge (and brother) education. When I rushed, there were some houses who were considered "athletic houses", but most houses weren't. Nowadays, a weight room with exercise machines is almost a must, and having every brother jog, or work out somehow, is a goal.

I don't know what sororities are doing, I think women prefer an aerobics class type of environment? Are any national sororities promoting fitness habits?

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by modorney

Are any national sororities promoting fitness habits?

ASA has 4 aims: Intellectual, Physical, Social, and Spiritual

There is programming that goes with all 4 aims. (And, NO, it doesn't include PT for the Physical part)

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by modorney

Are any national sororities promoting fitness habits?

DG has a program called Well Aware which promotes physical health. But there is a difference between promoting health and forcing sisters to work out... I don't know of many sororities that require members to work out or list it as a national goal.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Adding to this, my campus had a quota of 50(ish) and I wouldn't consider it competitive. So there are definitely larger quotas out there on non-competitive campuses. Just a point of information. Y'all can get back to what you were doing.

I understand. I don't think there's really any way to get from those stats to knowing what most people's experience was like, and as I said, I don't think SEC-type recruitment is anything like the norm.

Originally Posted by carnation

We did not deal with that issue when I was in college because it absolutely never came up. This is a recent development in college life.

Really? Do you think the girls at UGA going through recruitment are fatter today than they were in the past? Is that what you are seeing with girls from your hometown?

I know that as a country we are fatter, but I don't think the segment of society that goes through recruitment at competitive recruitments is experiencing this tread in the same proportion as the rest of society.

Originally Posted by 33girl

This is yet another one of the reasons I'm such a proponent of deferred rush. I think a lot of women would approach rush differently if they had a semester (at the least) to get to know the sorority members as people in everyday situations. Maybe they've heard the reputations more, but maybe they've also met women from the sororities who've helped them form their own opinions.

There'd be a lot of benefits to deferred recruitment if PNMs and group members interacted like normal people in the time before recruitment, but I don't know that it would actually help with this kind of image-based junk at the campuses most likely to have it. Like de-frilling recruitment, most efforts to make recruitment better at these campuses might really just give people more time to focus their energies on the wrong stuff.

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

DG has a program called Well Aware which promotes physical health. But there is a difference between promoting health and forcing sisters to work out... I don't know of many sororities that require members to work out or list it as a national goal.

At least officially. If there really is one out there telling overweight members to stay away from recruitment as was alleged in the first post, that will be a pretty motivating program. (Either to exercise or drop membership, of that you can't be sure, but the chapter will lose some weight.)

Any to all those who wish death to the thread, I don't get it. Why do you read junk that you aren't interested in?

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

DG has a program called Well Aware which promotes physical health. But there is a difference between promoting health and forcing sisters to work out... I don't know of many sororities that require members to work out or list it as a national goal.

Kappa Delta joined the Real Beauty Campaign with Dove. Maybe that is why I am taking the angle I am taking with reference to this situation; however, whatever it is, I still think singling your sisters out for being "fat" is cruel and callous. And I hope this thread doesn't die--it is pretty obvious from the amount of replies that this is a real issue in the Greek "world" and in our society at large. It's good that we are having a dialogue about it.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

Kappa Delta joined the Real Beauty Campaign with Dove. Maybe that is why I am taking the angle I am taking with reference to this situation; however, whatever it is, I still think singling your sisters out for being "fat" is cruel and callous. And I hope this thread doesn't die--it is pretty obvious from the amount of replies that this is a real issue in the Greek "world" and in our society at large. It's good that we are having a dialogue about it.

I've yet to see anyone posting in this thread who doesn't think telling your sisters they are fat is cruel and callous, unless one of the folks commenting about the health problem of obesity suggested you might be saving their lives.

What's under discussion as I see it is how far people are willing to let groups go in considering image during recruitment before they moved into clearly immoral behavior that would be more damaging to the group than the image "problems."

And about the Real Beauty campaign, it's kind of amusing to see them present women who wouldn't even seem overweight (or maybe even imperfect) if they were wearing clothes as representations of how much they value different standards of beauty.