Institutions with national sororities

Originally Posted by ClioGirl06

I find it quite offensive that you put "local groups functioning like sororities". Locals are sororities, they are just not members of NPC. My local (and many others) have been in existence longer than any NPC group, and at my school the biggest, strongest sororities happen to be local.

You might want to re-check your facts:

NPC founding years:
Alpha Delta Pi (1851)
Phi Mu (1852)
Pi Beta Phi (1867)
Kappa Alpha Theta (1870)
Kappa Kappa Gamma (1870)
Alpha Phi (1872)

Your local: 1872

Just sayin'.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by oldu

Sorry, I did not mean to infer that some local sororities are different than their national counterparts. The "functioning like" was in the plural to describe all three kinds of groups. However, I have found that there were campuses where groups were called sororities but their memberships were assigned instead of selected--a big difference. I guess I need an editor to clean up some of my phrases!

yeah you imply, the reader infers.

[SWTXBelle]

Locals are not in the league of any NPC in terms of active members, alumnae, resources, programming, housing, networking, etc. That's a simple fact. NPC members are rightly proud of what their groups have achieved.

That doesn't mean that a local group cannot have a strong sisterhood, traditions, or campus presence. It doesn't mean a local is just a "clique" - but some are indeed more like clubs than sororities. As oldu pointed out, some of them are run radically differently than NPC sororities. There's really no need to be so defensive. It makes you look like you have a chip on your shoulder. Many locals, after all, eventually become NPC sororities, which would not be the case if the women weren't of the same "caliber" as their brethren in the NPC. Heck, we all started out as "locals".

[33girl]

I don't blame ClioGirl06 for feeling defensive, because when you say things like "some are more like clubs than sororities" - well hell, there are chapters of NPC sororities who are like that. Just because you send a report in to national saying you did this philanthropy and held that meeting doesn't mean it's true.

There is a lot more accountability than there used to be, but I bet most of us can think of a national chapter here and there who did nothing but social functions and mixers and got away with it for one reason or another.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I don't blame ClioGirl06 for feeling defensive, because when you say things like "some are more like clubs than sororities" - well hell, there are chapters of NPC sororities who are like that. Just because you send a report in to national saying you did this philanthropy and held that meeting doesn't mean it's true.

There is a lot more accountability than there used to be, but I bet most of us can think of a national chapter here and there who did nothing but social functions and mixers and got away with it for one reason or another.

Some (note I said SOME not ALL) locals are indeed more like clubs than sororities the way we think of NPC members. As oldu pointed out, some of them have assigned membership. Some of them want to wear greek letters in an attempt to be "cool", but really don't want to do anything other than the social.

As to the nationals - I'd like to think that any NPC chapter that did nothing but socials would soon be put right by their HQ and advisors. I really can't think of a national chapter at any of the schools I attended or have worked at or with that would fit the description of a mere club.
Obviously, Clio's local has a great deal going for it or it wouldn't have been around as long as it has. That is why she need not feel defensive .

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by ClioGirl06

Don't want to thread jack but,wow you tell me not to be defensive but when you make comments like...
"Many locals, after all, eventually become NPC sororities, which would not be the case if the the women weren't of the same "caliber" as their brethren in NPC" and
"locals are not in the league of any NPC in terms of active members, alumnae, resources, programming, housing, networking, etc. That's a simple fact. NPC members are rightly proud of what their groups have achieved"

...I certainly cannot help it. NPC groups should be proud of their achievements and heritage but with those comments you are belittling the achievements and heritage of all locals. I'm not sure about your school but all seven locals at mine and the ones I've met at other SUNY schools go through recruitment, new member processes, new member SELECTION, initiations, required philanthropy hours, etc. Just because we choose not to affiliate nationally (for many valid reasons) does not make us not of the same "caliber as our brethren in the NPC".

**This rant is not in anyway against NPC orgs. I went through both national and local recruitment at my school, have many friends in the NPC orgs. at my school and respect all the great things they do on campus, I am merely annoyed at the assumption by many on the forum that if your not NPC your not "real"**

Umm . . .re-read what you posted from my quote. My whole point was that you were indeed of the same caliber. In fact, that's what I said.

Are you disputing what I said about the achievements of NPCs? Because otherwise, why bring it up to say that it is justification for being defensive? If it's true (and it is), then why should it make you defensive ? What in the world did I state that would make you feel I thought "if your (SIC) not NPC your (SIC) not real"?

The guilty man flees where none pursue . . .

But let's just halt this hijack right here. YES Clio - your local is a very real GLO who I am sure has a strong sisterhood and tradition. Okay? The topic of the thread is specfically national sororities. That isn't to say locals aren't important, or valid, or worthy of their own thread. It just means that this particular thread is dealing with national/international groups.

[pbear19]

CG, I'm a member of a local, and I don't think anyone here is belittling locals. It's a fact that my local doesn't have the same infrastructure as a national org. It's not putting us down to say that, it's just a fact. And, what SWTXBelle said about caliber was a compliment. It's been established that pretty much every NPC started out as a local, and we know that many sororities today that are local may not be local at some point in the future. That's a credit to the strong sisterhood of locals.

I also don't think she or anyone else was implying that a local that has always been and will always be local is inferior. At least, that's not how I interpreted it at all.

[Benzgirl]

Just out of curiosity, have you looked at gains/losses specifically during times of war? Specifically, WW1, WW2, Korean War, Viet Nam, Desert Storm, and the Invasion of Iraq.

[SWTXBelle]

Thank you, pbear. You stated what I wanted to better than I did! For what it's worth, my mother was in a local in college, and in fact I was named for her Theta Psi Delta sister.

As an aside - it seems like everyone and their dog lately has been being "offended". How about we all try and be a little more forgiving, and assume that most people aren't trying to offend, and that it might be a simple matter of miscommunication or misinterpretation?

eta - I think one of the problems when discussing locals is that, by their very nature, they are all very different and so it is hard to make general statements about them. I would imagine they would be very reflective of their campus, and thus more individualistic.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by ClioGirl06

I find it quite offensive that you put "local groups functioning like sororities". Locals are sororities, they are just not members of NPC. My local (and many others) have been in existence longer than any NPC group, and at my school the biggest, strongest sororities happen to be local.

Just to piggyback on other GC'ers comments ... a lot of the locals at your school were at some point NPC chapters (and IFC) that chose to severe their ties with the National because they didn't want to adhere to the strict rules that the National office had. There are also some that were National at some point but went local when the school banned Nationals and just never reaffiliated.

So chill out.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by ClioGirl06

TP: It is the fraternities at my school that were primarily once Nat'l now turned local, mostly due to financial hardships of maintaining Nat'l dues. The Local sororities to my knowledge were never chapter of current NPC groups, some were regional literary societies but most chapters disappeared in the early 1900's and the remaining chapter have little to no affiliation to each other.

Actually just a few days ago I was reading this thread and I can't remember if I followed a link that was originally there somewhere or if I Googled it seperately, but there was a page I recall seeing that included one of your Clio chapters and a few others that were once part of nationals. There were numerous locals (both fratnerities and sororities) that were listed as previously being affiliated with NPC/IFC organizations that voluntarily returned their charters because of the "strict rules"...

but I digress.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by ClioGirl06

Really I'm not trying to get all defensive. No need to tell me to chill out. I'm not simply speaking of things I've heard in this thread, but bits and pieces of other gc threads, things I've heard elsewhere, etc.

Herein lies the problem. You are trying to correct all these pasts wrongs by over-reacting to perceived slights in this particular thread. That would be the "chip on your shoulder" I referred to earlier. Since we don't know about the other "bits and pieces" or "things I've heard elsewhere", your reaction here looks defensive. Apparently the problem here is the definition of a "legitimate GLO". Had you shared your criteria of single sex membership and selected membership we might have been able to avoid some useless bickering. Don't assume that because NPC GLOs are proud of their achievements and history that it means they must look down on locals. I'm glad you've found a home and sisterhood that makes you happy.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

yeah you imply, the reader infers.

You corrected me on that years ago.

[SWTXBelle]

I don't think you even read what I post.

I quoted you above, and wrote quite clearly. You were the one who started by trying to slam NPCs with your (incorrect) comment about how your local was older than ANY NPC. After making that kind of error, you'll have to pardon us for thinking that perhaps your Greek knowledge and experience is rather limited and parochial.

If you don't want us to think you have a chip on your shoulder, how about you stop acting so defensive and give it a rest? Really, I've tried several times to calm the waters and return to the topic at hand, but you just won't stop being defensive. Let it go, already. The thread is about national sororities so either contribute positively to the topic or go post something in the local forum.

[SWTXBelle]

I wonder - does housing play any part in deciding whether or not a Greek system continues or closes? Is a system without housing, or only with university housing, more likely to close?

I know the issue of housing is an important component of the Greek experience on some campuses - even figuring into quota on some campuses. It was an issue in the late unpleasantness at DePauw. Thoughts, anyone?