All locals going national at once

[Kevlar281]

Still active at the University of Houston:

Alpha Chi Omega, Chi Omega, Delta Gamma, Delta Zeta, Phi Mu and Zeta Tau Alpha.

Pi Kappa Alpha, Pi Kappa Phi, Sigma Phi Epsilon, Sigma Chi, *Sigma Nu, Tau Kappa Epsilon

*I'm not quite sure what their status is.

[Stef the Pef]

Originally Posted by carnation

I remember when all the Baylor sororities went national at once in the seventies. Feeding frenzy!

At the school where I teach, all the locals except 1 went national at once, plus they added another one a couple of years later.

I was about to mention BU here because that's exactly what happened.

Supposedly the Kappa Omega Tau fraternity couldn't find a national that fit their needs in all the rush, and that's why they stayed a local. Makes for some interesting local histories, that's for sure.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by Stef the Pef

I was about to mention BU here because that's exactly what happened.

Supposedly the Kappa Omega Tau fraternity couldn't find a national that fit their needs in all the rush, and that's why they stayed a local. Makes for some interesting local histories, that's for sure.

Back when I was chapter president, I met the Baylor Pi Phi president and she described some of the craziness that occurred when they were trying to choose what national... it sounded very dramatic to say the least!

One of my good friends now is a Chi-O from Baylor and I think her husband is a Kappa Omega Tau.... I may be wrong on this, but aren't there some local sororities at Baylor as well? I know a really sweet girl who is a member of a local (or maybe regional, don't know) group there with a strong Christian focus.

Originally Posted by scbelle

I went to Davidson, and yes, that is the way selection for eating houses is determined. In the fall, freshmen visit the eating houses, kind of like an Open House. Then in January, women who want to join rank their preferences. Once the cards are in, a lottery determines where a woman will join. The eating house has no say as to who will or will not be a member.

I do not remember fraternity rules, but I'm pretty sure when I was there that bids were given like any other campus. I just remember that my then-boyfriend so badly wanted to join SigEp, but he didn't receive a bid. He did get one from PiKA, though. I had a good friend from our high school in the SigEp house and I remember him telling me that he didn't want the boy in his fraternity... whether that had anything to do with it or not, I don't know. But bids are usually given out starting around October, and that goes on for awhile... the "rush" time is a whole semester. So that doesn't make sense with a self-selection process to me.

Ah ha! Thanks for that! I was trying to reconstruct from what I learned when I was applying there and from my aunt. It's interesting that they would have self-selection for the women's groups and not the men's.

May I ask what your opinion of bringing national sororities to Davidson is? I know my aunt is so vehemently opposed to it, but when she was a freshman there I think at least the seniors (and maybe the juniors too) were all male and she is really influenced by the specific political situation that was on campus then. She's a pretty involved alumna, but she once mentioned to me that she'd quit giving money to the school if they allowed sororities on campus. I'm not sure I really believe that though. Although it's true that she's pretty upset that the co-ed eating houses gave way to all women's eating houses.

[Stef the Pef]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Back when I was chapter president, I met the Baylor Pi Phi president and she described some of the craziness that occurred when they were trying to choose what national... it sounded very dramatic to say the least!

One of my good friends now is a Chi-O from Baylor and I think her husband is a Kappa Omega Tau.... I may be wrong on this, but aren't there some local sororities at Baylor as well? I know a really sweet girl who is a member of a local (or maybe regional, don't know) group there with a strong Christian focus.

There's CHI'S (a service sorority) and KXA (Christian local) as far as local sororities go. They don't participate in Panhellenic stuff, though. There's Sigma Phi Lambda, too--an upcoming Christian sorority with chapters elsewhere.

Then there's Phi Kappa Chi (Christian local) and KOT for local fraternities. I'm pretty sure both do all the same things that the rest of IFC does.

[scbelle]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

May I ask what your opinion of bringing national sororities to Davidson is?

I think bringing national sororities would be a step in the right direction. I don't understand why men are allowed to have fraternities if women can't have sororities. Fraternities come with benefits that follow way beyond graduation, as do sororities. Those benefits include continued leadership cultivation, tradition and networking to name a few. Eating houses do not offer the same benefits. So why are women forced to make those concessions when they are accepted to and attend Davidson?

From what I know of a lot of alumnae friends, they are also vehemently opposed to bringing sororities. They chose to attend Davidson based on the fact that it did not have sororities. I don't know if it's because they don't fully understand what a sorority is (I know Davidson people are smart, but I get the sense that they buy into the sterotypes).

At any rate, I understand the earlier alumnae position, since it was a very volatile time for feminism. My dad had graduated the spring before women were allowed to receive degrees (women could come to classes), so he really wasn't too privy to the atmosphere on campus to be of any historical use to me for this topic. But I don't understand why men have fraternities, the campus will be adding Alpha Kappa Alpha in the fall, and eating houses can't go national. To me, that just doesn't sound very equal.

[BadCat25]

I wouldn't hold my breath about Davidson. A friend from high school goes there and told me the faculty and administration is very anti greek.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by BadCat25

I wouldn't hold my breath about Davidson.

Definitely not. Many women alumnae also vehemently oppose sororities. I don't think it'll ever happen there. Also I wonder how NPCs would react to Davidson's guaranteed self-selection. I know that most of the fraternities opposed it and many left campus when this was instituted in the 1970s, but many later returned.

Sewanee, maybe so, but it's my understanding from other GC threads that the locals there don't want national affiliation/supervision.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Also I wonder how NPCs would react to Davidson's guaranteed self-selection..

In layman's terms, what is that?

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

In layman's terms, what is that?

Any person going through Davidson's fraternity or eating house recruitment (there are both all-women and co-ed eating houses) are guaranteed their choice of where to join. Basically if a person wants to join that group, they can. The potential new members rank their choices and membership is decided by lottery. My understanding is that you cannot be denied membership by the members of the group you want to join. Self-selection instead of mutual selection You may not get what you want in the lottery, however.

Of course students at Davidson might be able to comment on the theory vs. practice of this rule.

When the rule was implemented in 1971, many of the fraternities decided to close and at least a few began operating off-campus without school recognition. I think they are all now officially recognized and abiding by the self-selection rule. The eating houses obviously never had this issue.

Actually looking at the website it appears that the co-ed eating house folded...

[scbelle]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Any person going through Davidson's fraternity or eating house recruitment (there are both all-women and co-ed eating houses) are guaranteed their choice of where to join. Basically if a person wants to join that group, they can. The potential new members rank their choices and membership is decided by lottery. My understanding is that you cannot be denied membership by the members of the group you want to join. Self-selection instead of mutual selection You may not get what you want in the lottery, however.

Of course students at Davidson might be able to comment on the theory vs. practice of this rule.

When the rule was implemented in 1971, many of the fraternities decided to close and at least a few began operating off-campus without school recognition. I think they are all now officially recognized and abiding by the self-selection rule. The eating houses obviously never had this issue.

Actually looking at the website it appears that the co-ed eating house folded...

I went to Davidson, and yes, that is the way selection for eating houses is determined. In the fall, freshmen visit the eating houses, kind of like an Open House. Then in January, women who want to join rank their preferences. Once the cards are in, a lottery determines where a woman will join. The eating house has no say as to who will or will not be a member.

I do not remember fraternity rules, but I'm pretty sure when I was there that bids were given like any other campus. I just remember that my then-boyfriend so badly wanted to join SigEp, but he didn't receive a bid. He did get one from PiKA, though. I had a good friend from our high school in the SigEp house and I remember him telling me that he didn't want the boy in his fraternity... whether that had anything to do with it or not, I don't know. But bids are usually given out starting around October, and that goes on for awhile... the "rush" time is a whole semester. So that doesn't make sense with a self-selection process to me.

[alum]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Sewanee, maybe so, but it's my understanding from other GC threads that the locals there don't want national affiliation/supervision.

But would Sewanee locals have a choice if the administration said they had to affiliate with a national or disband? With liability risk so much higher with locals, wasn't that why WFU admin demanded the switch to all nationals?

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by alum

But would Sewanee locals have a choice if the administration said they had to affiliate with a national or disband? With liability risk so much higher with locals, wasn't that why WFU admin demanded the switch to all nationals?

I guess they wouldn't. I know that KD is currently at Sewanee--I'm not sure if they colonized outright or took in a local. At one time the rumor was heard on GC that they were going to be required to go national, but it apparently never happened (or maybe they were never actually required to). There is a really old thread about this:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...hlight=sewanee

I agree with you re: liability concerns. I also wonder if KD's national resources haven't shocked and awed the other groups there. LOL. Who knows?

[Senusret I]

Alpha Phi Alpha has a chapter there..... they must exist outside of this self-selection....thing.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Alpha Phi Alpha has a chapter there..... they must exist outside of this self-selection....thing.

Yes, I noticed when I did a search on the Davidson site that Alpha Phi Alpha had colonized there in the early 00s.

I did find this PDF regarding the topic, but it doesn't tell me anything more than I already knew:

http://www3.davidson.edu/cms/documen...ife%200708.pdf

The Patterson Court (where the eating houses/fraternities are located) website is pretty cruddy and not as good as I remember it once being:

http://www3.davidson.edu/cms/x16074.xml

I have no idea if they left Alpha Phi Alpha not do self-selection. Honestly it seems unfair that they would let them and not any other groups do it... but who knows?

ETA: I found a very good timeline here:

http://www2.davidson.edu/studentlife...PC_history.pdf

I suppose I should add that I grew up 40 minutes from Davidson and went there throughout my life. I wanted to go to college there but ended up not at the last minute. My aunt is an alumna and is pretty much horrified that there are any single-sex groups there. In 1971 the process of self-selection really was designed to kill Greek life and make all the groups into co-ed eating houses. For whatever reason, according to that timeline the original co-ed eating houses all seem to have died by the early 90s.

According to the timeline, national sororities were debated in 1997 and 2001....

Found this too:

http://library.davidson.edu/archives...court_type.asp

OK, one more thing. Evidently fraternities do give bids somehow, although how that would work in the self-selection process isn't clear to me. Also, you can switch eating houses. And one more thing that I do remember hearing from my college tour: you can join an eating house in "clusters" of three so you won't get separated from your friends. Read about all of that in this article:

http://media.www.thedavidsonian.com/...-2673071.shtml

[Kitemom]

I was at Baylor then. Kappa Alpha Theta was the first soroity to come on campus and the only one for several months. Then another big sorority came on campus and it was a feeding frenzy one Tuesday night, chapters were in a panic. Then they all changed in the Spring of 1977. Kappa, Pi Phi, Tri Delt, Chi Omega, DG. Then it spilled over to the guys. KOT and Chamber did not go national. Chamber is really a service organization especially since they allow girls in. Alumni returned and there were mass initations. Then the following year Zeta colonized. In the end it was a positve move for Baylor. There aren't and will never be sorority houses.