George W. Bush: Hazer

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

It definitely was legal. Legal doesn't mean it was encouraged by everyone. But silence is the same thing as encouragement with hazing.

There have always been hazing complaints. I just read a website that documented hazing incidents from 1905. Such complaints, if they were able to make a case, just weren't covered under laws that specifically addressed hazing.

Makes sense. No "hazing" laws, but the acts may have been covered under other laws if the individuals wished to prosecute.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Makes sense. No "hazing" laws, but the acts may have been covered under other laws if the individuals wished to prosecute.

You're right in that there was and is a culture that makes people less likely to complain. "Everyone does it" made people think it was a legitimate right of passage.

But a lot of people think hazing allegations didn't really exist before the 1990s' laws, which isn't true.

[Day13]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Makes sense. No "hazing" laws, but the acts may have been covered under other laws if the individuals wished to prosecute.

The thing is that hazing laws today specifically mention that consent of the person does not matter. I think you'd have a tough time without this part of the law.

[Thetagirl218]

Hmmm...The whole Bush/ Skull and Bones thing got me to thinking...Wasn't Kerry a Skull and Bones around the same time as Bush?

[Day13]

Originally Posted by Thetagirl218

Hmmm...The whole Bush/ Skull and Bones thing got me to thinking...Wasn't Kerry a Skull and Bones around the same time as Bush?

Yeah, remember that Don't Taze Me Bro video from UF. That is what the kid was getting at.

Why did Kerry give up on the election results so easily and weren't they in that secret organization together? I guess he figured it was a conspiracy. Whack job.

[KyleMcGuire1983]

People still get hazed today. I was in a non greek society type organization at a tiny liberal arts college and I was paddled (once as part of a ceremony), had to do sit ups, push ups in the mud, line ups and drills, I was deprived of sleep, served as basically a slave to the members, etc. etc.

This was in 2002 not 1962.

When I joined Sigma Nu in 2005 (at a large public university) I discovered that most national GLOs are pretty tame when it comes to any of that stuff. I didn't have to do any kind of hazing to get into Sigma Nu and I'm pretty sure the situation wasn't too bad at other fraternities on my campus from what I've heard.

I still stay in contact with some of the guys from my first college and from what I've heard there is still plenty of hazing going on with both the male and female groups.

It's a shame, but honestly I don't believe pledges are helpless. I know back in 2002 I could have walked away at any moment and said "screw this BS, I'm out." Quite a few guys did. I'm not condoning hazing, I'm just saying I don't buy the claim that people who are being hazed are totally helpless. I didn't feel I was involved in anything that put me in any real physical danger at anytime.

I dunno does anybody else feel there are "levels" of hazing? I shrug at the stuff I went through while I am totally disgusted with the alcohol hazing.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

I know back in 2002 I could have walked away at any moment and said "screw this BS, I'm out." Quite a few guys did.

So, the natural question (at least to me) would be is hazing worth losing those guys who you at least thought were the kind of man you would like to call "brother."

When I look at our chapters (or any one elses) who pledge thirty guys and initiate fifteen, I think two things. First, that they probably haze and second, what a waste of time and resources to lose members of your pledge class that you've had to work hard to win.

It makes no sense to me.

But then, after being a alumni volunteer/officer, I can't condone hazing at all.

ETA, thinking of the title of this thread, it is kind of a stretch since, as has been pointed out, there weren't really "hazing laws" back then. If situations got bad enough, there could be prosecution under other laws, as has also been pointed out.

[sasquatch]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

So, the natural question (at least to me) would be is hazing worth losing those guys who you at least thought were the kind of man you would like to call "brother."

When I look at our chapters (or any one elses) who pledge thirty guys and initiate fifteen, I think two things. First, that they probably haze and second, what a waste of time and resources to lose members of your pledge class that you've had to work hard to win.

It makes no sense to me.

But then, after being a alumni volunteer/officer, I can't condone hazing at all.

ETA, thinking of the title of this thread, it is kind of a stretch since, as has been pointed out, there weren't really "hazing laws" back then. If situations got bad enough, there could be prosecution under other laws, as has also been pointed out.

The thing is...many chapters pledge thirty guys with the intention being to only initiate 15. It's very common. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that a lot of times losing half the guys is all part of the plan, so the actives do not see it as a loss.

Edit: Forgot to mention that just because they GOT 30 guys doesn't mean they worked hard (or at all) to get them. Some chapters are lucky enough to be able to sit back and let 150 years of history work it's magic.

[Football Fan]

Just because a person tells a tale does not mean it is always true.

[PhiGam]

I've heard of something like that except you put one brand in ice water and one in a fire.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

I've heard of something like that except you put one brand in ice water and one in a fire.

Or just pressed an ice cube to their skin, while putting the branding iron in water to make the sizzling sound.. The initial sensation is the same and there in no burning at all.

Funny how it became "just a cigarette" when they thought it would be a brand. Burning with lighted cigarettes is a form of torture.

[PhiGam]

P.S. Skull and Bones is a secret society, much like Burning Spear at FSU. While most of the members are probably in fraternities, it is not itself a GLO.