Warning: The next generation might just be the biggest pile of idiots in U.S. history

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by nikki1920

I am scared for this generation. How you leave high school without knowing how to write a term paper is beyond me, but I had to write a 20 page final in 11th grade. I took 3 AP classes my senior year. These kids don't know how to use an encyclopedia, how to look up books at the library, etc. It scares me. Yes, computers are EVERYWHERE, but you still need to know what to do when the computers go down.

I'm not that worried about kids not knowing how to look things up in books. After all, computers aren't usually down for more than a day or two. What kids really need to learn are:

1. How to properly cite their sources

2. How not to procrastinate (but that's all generations)

3. How to write a proper paper.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

AGDee and MysticCat--that's because you all are good parents...

LOL. Thanks, but I don't think I get that much of the credit. We are in a very good school in a very good public school system. We have been fortunate that he has always had very good teachers who value him despite the challenges that he can present (and he can present challenges), who want him to do well and live up to his potential, and who constantly look for ways to keep him challenged.

My point really is that the article, as KSig and others noted, is based purely on anecdotal evidence from one teacher. Many of us can provide our own anecdotal evidence to the contrary. If the writer of the article really wants to support the claims he's making, he needs real data, not just anecdotes.

[33girl]

I do want to say, all this standardized testing and the emphasis placed on it is unreal to me. We had things like ASVAB and all that, but other than the SATs & ACTs, we NEVER knew when these kind of tests were coming up...we walked into school, the teachers said "OK, you're going to take a standardized test today" and we took it. To prep us for it would have defeated the entire purpose of what the test was supposed to show.

And even as far as the SAT is concerned, I love ex-Mr 33's story about how he forgot about it till the night before, went in the next morning half awake, and got one of the 3 highest scores in his class.

To make a Greek parallel, the emphasis on standardized testing as opposed to are the kids graduating, can they think critically, what are their grades like etc. is kind of like the sororities putting all the emphasis on achieving quota and total at rush and not looking any further than that to see how many of those women stay involved, terminate etc. The things that are easiest to measure are not the things that count the most.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by nikki1920

.

I do think that No Child Left Behind has completely screwed up education--there is WAY too much emphasis on testing and scores and not enough on long term retention.

.

not only that it lowers the bar for kids on said scores and in effect slides kids right on thru school without teachign them critical skills needed for them to survive....and they slide right on into colleges who will happily take thier money an dlet them flunk out because they couldn't pass muster.


Thank you Gee Dubya....

[DSTCHAOS]

I agree that there's too much emphasis on standardized tests. These tests have biases and are generally unimportant considering that they don't measure what they claim to be measuring.

Not to mention there will always be children left behind if we don't address inequalities in education. We try to track kids into "smart" and "not smart" tracks early on without considering that there are a lot of social factors that go into being smart and intelligent. Family background is a key factor and the "separate and unequal" in our nation's school systems is another big factor. You also have kids with behavioral, mental, and physical disabilities who are tracked into "special care" tracks where people ASSUME they have no intellectual capacity and just need to be drugged up or monitored. However, some of them are very smart and intelligent so it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Plus, it's hard to get "special care" teachers who actually have the expertise to also challenge some of these kids academically.

If kids don't know how to look stuff up in books, or look up journal articles on JSTOR and sit down and read them extensively, that's the parents' and teachers' faults. I have noticed that when young adults get to college, they think that "research" means to print off random info from a Google search and pass it off as scholarly and referee journal research. Part of it is students being lazy and the other part is that this society isn't training the future for more than intellectually unstimulating and unrigorous tasks/jobs. It begins with the family and THEN becomes the teachers' responsibilities.

[Taualumna]

Should jursidictions be extending middle school until Grade 10, and then streaming kids into various types of senior high schools for Grades 11 and 12? For example, if you want to go into the trades, you will attend trades training for your last two years. If you're interested in academics, you go to a traditional academic high school. They used to do this in Toronto (though the kids would start in Grade 9 rather than Grade 11)...many of the most academic/traditional high schools are Such and Such Collegiate Institute while the non-historically academic schools are Such and Such Technical School or Such and Such School of Commerce. Would that improve anything, you think?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Should jursidictions be extending middle school until Grade 10

NO.

The last thing we need is to put 6th or 7th graders with 10th graders.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Should jursidictions be extending middle school until Grade 10, and then streaming kids into various types of senior high schools for Grades 11 and 12? For example, if you want to go into the trades, you will attend trades training for your last two years. If you're interested in academics, you go to a traditional academic high school. They used to do this in Toronto (though the kids would start in Grade 9 rather than Grade 11)...many of the most academic/traditional high schools are Such and Such Collegiate Institute while the non-historically academic schools are Such and Such Technical School or Such and Such School of Commerce. Would that improve anything, you think?

No.

There shouldn't be trade and academic tracks. Having honors courses and trade classes in high school are close enough to that. In my high school, there were kids bused to a trade school after lunch.

High schoolers can't predict their future. They may notice that they do well in trades versus honors courses, and they may even like that option. But how they perceive their future has a lot more to do with what they're presented with as options. Poor kids, kids with learning disabilities, kids who are bored in school, etc. will think this means that college and academic careers aren't options for them. Parents and teachers need to let kids know that their futures aren't set in stone at birth. And their futures may very well defy what they, and everyone around them, assumed to be their futures.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by 33girl

NO.

The last thing we need is to put 6th or 7th graders with 10th graders.

1. High school/secondary school in many parts of the world are for kids ages 11/12 to 15/16 and the kids who live there are no better or worse than kids here.
   
2. Even in this part of the world, plenty of private schools go from kindergarten to high school graduation. In these schools, middle and high school grades share at least some facilities. Again, the kids are no better or worse off.

I should add that high school in Quebec, Canada is Grades 7-11 (ages 12 to 16). The kids then go off to CEGEP especially if they want to go to university.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

No.

There shouldn't be trade and academic tracks. Having honors courses and trade classes in high school are close enough to that. In my high school, there were kids bused to a trade school after lunch.

High schoolers can't predict their future. They may notice that they do well in trades versus honors courses, and they may even like that option. But how they perceive their future has a lot more to do with what they're presented with as options. Poor kids, kids with learning disabilities, kids who are bored in school, etc. will think this means that college and academic careers aren't options for them. Parents and teachers need to let kids know that their futures aren't set in stone at birth. And their futures may very well defy what they, and everyone around them, assumed to be their futures.

My high school was similar.

First 2 years you took basic academic courses that were required and last two years along with that, we had specialized courses along our career track and then certain days of the week, work study.

Oddly enough back 2 comments ago...about extending middle school to 10 grade... not just 20 to 25 years ago, we took 9th grade out of middle school and put it in high school....so who knows...maybe we should move it back

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

1. High school/secondary school in many parts of the world are for kids ages 11/12 to 15/16 and the kids who live there are no better or worse than kids here.
   
2. Even in this part of the world, plenty of private schools go from kindergarten to high school graduation. In these schools, middle and high school grades share at least some facilities. Again, the kids are no better or worse off.

I should add that high school in Quebec, Canada is Grades 7-11 (ages 12 to 16). The kids then go off to CEGEP especially if they want to go to university.

What does what other parts of the world do with their education system have to do with what America should do? I'm looking for something that could be the common denominator so that we can make these comparisons and then use other countries as examples for change.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Oddly enough back 2 comments ago...about extending middle school to 10 grade... not just 20 to 25 years ago, we took 9th grade out of middle school and put it in high school....so who knows...maybe we should move it back

8th and 9th were "junior high" in many districts. So people acknowledged that these grades were transitional in terms of maturity and learning processes.

I am thinking back to my older siblings' middle and high school years. I do believe that 9th gradere were high schoolers where I lived. Not sure.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

What does what other parts of the world do with their education system have to do with what America should do? I'm looking for something that could be the common denominator so that we can make these comparisons and then use other countries as examples for change.

Well, 33girl didn't think putting 11/12 year olds with 15/16 year olds was such a good idea. I was trying to say that it works in some parts of the world, including in North America. Like I said, many schools, especially private schools, house their middle and senior divisions in the same premises, even if the middle division has its own wing. Usually, they will share the caf, auditorium, gym and perhaps arts based classrooms as well.

[nikki1920]

High school in MD/VA: 9th to 12th
Middle school: 7th and 8th
Elementary: k thru 6 (I attended 1/2 year in 6th grade, then went to middle school in VA. Moved to MD at start of 9th)

I used to live in NY, and elementary was 1 -5
Middle was 6, 7 and 8
and High school was 9 thorugh 12.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Well, 33girl didn't think putting 11/12 year olds with 15/16 year olds was such a good idea. I was trying to say that it works in some parts of the world, including in North America. Like I said, many schools, especially private schools, house their middle and senior divisions in the same premises, even if the middle division has its own wing. Usually, they will share the caf, auditorium, gym and perhaps arts based classrooms as well.

So they don't share REAL classes together. That isn't really sharing to me because there's no learning process that is geared toward all the different age groups in one REAL class.

Superficially mingling with older and younger people is supposed to do what, exactly?