U. of Wyoming: Temporary Suspension of Sigma Nu Chapter (Alleged Alcohol Violations)

[Kevin]

Brother Morton,

To me, it sounds like the big story here is that your campus has an unhealthy 'snitch' mentality. Unless we're talking bigtime RM issues, this one-upping vs. other organizations by reporting issues to the Greek Life office isn't going to go anywhere anyone wants to go.

My hope is that you guys put this behind you and have some frank, off-the-record chats with fellow IFC organizations regarding the direction you guys want greek life to take at UW. Today it may be the tri lambdas reporting you. Tomorrow, it's you reporting them. What comes around goes around -- and all of it reflects poorly upon greek life as a whole.

Whatever happened and whether it is serious or not is between your chapter and the greek life office. From the sound of things, I think there are bigger fish to fry.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by banditone

Anytime one fraternity turns in another, you really need to get together and come to some agreements. It does nothing but hurt greek life as a whole.

True in some cases.
In other cases as we have seen all too many times here in RM when one
chapter does something bad it reflects on the rest of Greek life.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by jon1856

True in some cases.
In other cases as we have seen all too many times here in RM when one
chapter does something bad it reflects on the rest of Greek life.

"Something bad" in this case is hella-ambiguous, doncha think?

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Kevin

"Something bad" in this case is hella-ambiguous, doncha think?

[KyleMcGuire1983]

Well....not to be too biased here (as I'm a Sigma Nu and all) but yeah, I completely understand the snitching culture some IFCs have and it's NOT healthy.

Personally had I seen a bad alcohol situation at another fraternity's house I would try to assist the sober actives of that chapter in getting medical attention to the victim (or overdrinking idiot) and be quiet about it. I highly doubt I'd tell the administration....that's just un-needed attention. When people overdrink it's rarely because a "frat guy" is force feeding them, when that IS the case it's called hazing and it's not tolerated.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

Well....not to be too biased here (as I'm a Sigma Nu and all) but yeah, I completely understand the snitching culture some IFCs have and it's NOT healthy.

Personally had I seen a bad alcohol situation at another fraternity's house I would try to assist the sober actives of that chapter in getting medical attention to the victim (or over drinking idiot) and be quiet about it. I highly doubt I'd tell the administration....that's just un-needed attention. When people over drink it's rarely because a "frat guy" is force feeding them, when that IS the case it's called hazing and it's not tolerated.

Based on something that happened at my late, formally great chapter, I looked to see what Wyoming's hazing laws said. Found out Wyoming is one of the very few states without anti-hazing laws.
However, the stories posted above indicate that Sigma Nu has alcohol policies as does the school within the code of conduct (which also has anti-hazing provisions)
Link for school's code is contained on this page: http://uwadmnweb.uwyo.edu/dos/progra...icial/code.asp
A. Offenses Involving Alcohol and Drugs.


1. Use, possession or distribution of illegal drugs or other controlled substances except as expressly permitted by law.

2. Public intoxication or the use, possession or distribution of alcoholic beverages except as expressly permitted by law and University policies, rules and regulations.

3. Unauthorized selling, directly or indirectly (such as through donations or solicitations), of alcoholic beverages on University premises is prohibited. This restriction shall include the exchange of tickets for alcoholic beverages or any other means by which alcoholic beverages are provided for a consideration of cash or other method of exchange.

4. Unauthorized public advertisement of alcohol related functions or parties on University premises.

II. DEFINITIONS: For purposes of The Student Code of Conduct:

F. “Hazing,” refers to an act that endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student, or which destroys or removes public or private property for the purpose of initiation, admission into, affiliation with, or as a condition of continued membership in a group, team or organization.

We could continue this debate on/about the pros and cons of being a tattle tail or we can discuss R/M issues and hazing.

I say hazing because that was a charge added to an incident at my old
chapter when the fire department found under age drunk pledges in the
house.

And remember that it was not too long ago that a Fraternity member
died from alcohol poisoning.

[banditone]

On our campus I remember having a party and drinking it up with some active KE's. We did many shots, and got them fall down drunk. We then called their house and told their pledges to come carry them home.

True story.

[Tom Earp]

If Greeks are in the minority on each and every campus, why fight among each other and cause a wall to be built between each other?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Based on something that happened at my late, formally great chapter, I looked to see what Wyoming's hazing laws said. Found out Wyoming is one of the very few states without anti-hazing laws.
However, the stories posted above indicate that Sigma Nu has alcohol policies as does the school within the code of conduct (which also has anti-hazing provisions)
Link for school's code is contained on this page: http://uwadmnweb.uwyo.edu/dos/progra...icial/code.asp
A. Offenses Involving Alcohol and Drugs.


1. Use, possession or distribution of illegal drugs or other controlled substances except as expressly permitted by law.

2. Public intoxication or the use, possession or distribution of alcoholic beverages except as expressly permitted by law and University policies, rules and regulations.

3. Unauthorized selling, directly or indirectly (such as through donations or solicitations), of alcoholic beverages on University premises is prohibited. This restriction shall include the exchange of tickets for alcoholic beverages or any other means by which alcoholic beverages are provided for a consideration of cash or other method of exchange.

4. Unauthorized public advertisement of alcohol related functions or parties on University premises.

II. DEFINITIONS: For purposes of The Student Code of Conduct:

F. “Hazing,” refers toan act that endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student, or which destroys or removes public or private property for the purpose of initiation, admission into, affiliation with, or as a condition of continued membership in a group, team or organization.

We could continue this debate on/about the pros and cons of being a tattle tail or we can discuss R/M issues and hazing.

I say hazing because that was a charge added to an incident at my old
chapter when the fire department found under age drunk pledges in the
house.

And remember that it was not too long ago that a Fraternity member
died from alcohol poisoning.

I'm quite certain that these guys know they did a bad thing and have taken internal steps to rectify the situation. An online confession or discussion about the particulars of whatever went on doesn't help anyone. Such a discussion may even cause the chapter more harm or breach the agreement they made with the school.

It looks like this thing was handled through the house corporation, the national fraternity and the school. If they're all happy with things, so am I.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm quite certain that these guys know they did a bad thing and have taken internal steps to rectify the situation. An online confession or discussion about the particulars of whatever went on doesn't help anyone. Such a discussion may even cause the chapter more harm or breach the agreement they made with the school.

It looks like this thing was handled through the house corporation, the national fraternity and the school. If they're all happy with things, so am I.

Kevin; I would agree with you.
However judging solely on posting from someone claiming to be a Brother there, does not seem to me that there is an understanding.

And the point of my posting was not to cause a discussion per se on the particulars of the event but to get away from the grade school level of snitching.

From my experiences covering things up, as has been suggested here, as if they never happened generally only makes things worse at so many levels.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Kevin; I would agree with you.
However judging solely on posting from someone claiming to be a Brother there, does not seem to me that there is an understanding.

And the point of my posting was not to cause a discussion per se on the particulars of the event but to get away from the grade school level of snitching.

From my experiences covering things up, as has been suggested here, as if they never happened generally only makes things worse at so many levels.

Jon, I'll take credit for that. I advised him not to say anything which wouldn't help his chapter's situation. He's not his chapter's spokesman, so really, we have no business interrogating him over this thing.

That he may or may not be upset that his chapter got turned in for what may or may not have been a minor violation is really immaterial. The story here is that they were reported by another fraternity and the problem has been solved by the active chapter signing, the university and the house corporation [alumni] signing an agreement which seems to set milestones for reinstatement.

As far as I'm concerned, there's not a lot else to the story other than the snitching issue, which can be an interesting discussion.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Jon, I'll take credit for that. I advised him not to say anything which wouldn't help his chapter's situation. He's not his chapter's spokesman, so really, we have no business interrogating him over this thing.

That he may or may not be upset that his chapter got turned in for what may or may not have been a minor violation is really immaterial. The story here is that they were reported by another fraternity and the problem has been solved by the active chapter signing, the university and the house corporation [alumni] signing an agreement which seems to set milestones for reinstatement.

As far as I'm concerned, there's not a lot else to the story other than the snitching issue, which can be an interesting discussion.

"Snitching issue"?
Def:
1. intransitive verb inform on somebody: to tell somebody in authority about another person's wrongdoing
IMVHO, this is a R/M issue along with an issue of what do Greeks, as both a chapter and a group, stand for. And how we behave and police our actions.
Both, as pointed out, would have a great deal impact on relationships
with school and community.
We have seen here, and I have seen personally, just how badly self-policing can go. Too many college kids think that self-policing is taking care of one incident at a time on their own and without any help. And forgetting about it when it happens again. And it is only when matters get really out of control, that the "authorities" step in. And then of course everyone gets bent out of shape on that.
And we have all seen just what happens when the media get hold of a Greek incident.

And just as there are no perfect cut and dry definitions of hazing, we could get into a long discussion on who tells what to whom at what point and when is it correct. And why and why. Which IMVHO would turn in a train wreak.

[banditone]

The problem that I have seen many times is when the "snitching" GLO is only doing so against a house that is above them in the tier system (it exists, I didn't create it, so don't blame me) in the hopes of knocking them down some, and in some way bringing their own group up some in the aftermath.


-- holy run-on sentences batman...

[jon1856]

[quote=banditone;1605272]The problem that I have seen many times is when the "snitching" GLO is only doing so against a house that is above them in the tier system (it exists, I didn't create it, so don't blame me) in the hopes of knocking them down some, and in some way bringing their own group up some in the aftermath.

quote]
Seen this many times???? Hummm
And just what kinds of "reports" are being made?
Reports are one matter, the out come of the investigation is another.

I know someone almost died because someone thought it would be "funny" to spike some punch at a party. He happens to be allergic to alcohol.

Or how about date rape? Does that reported?
Would reporting either one be considered knocking a house down or following code of conduct, morality, and ethics et al ???

Both happened, one at a campus, one later one. And I asked the question rhetorically.

Just goes back to my comments in prior posting.

[banditone]

"I saw beer at so and so house".

that type of report. no, i'm not talking about rapes or hazing liquor fests.