Tiers

[AKA_Monet]

Maybe I hope for the best in young people and I am quite removed from the college experience.

My question is if the GLO provided the BEST educational experience in addition to all the other wonderful accouterments of greek life, then no matter what tier the organization is, having the required numbers of membership would not matter?

Sure, it is cool to have a wonderful new set of friends, bond and build friendships for life, but bottom line a GLO is usually associated to a college and university, which means one attempt to get a degree in a respective field to move forward in their life... If strong educational support, with other activities occur, then should the "tier-ness" of an organization matter?

The question is like my Father's chant when he was in school:

"We party hard and stay up late, but most of all we graduate..."

[Fleur de Lis]

blondebutsmart,

My understanding is that tiers are determined by how many women want to join the chapter that year. Sometimes it is very clear and part of campus culture (like an Old Row designation) but can also be a certain mix of sisters that make people want to be a part of them. Sometimes it's just a bunch of shallow but beautiful girls that all wear designer clothes and get smashed with the hottest guys on campus, and for some reason this is attractive to PNMs. Tiers change at most schools and you are much better off considering sororities that you feel you connected to.

I think sisters in "lower-tier" sororities often enjoy their experience more because "upper-tier" sisters may look around and think "ok, I joined this super popular house but I don't feel like I belong". The "lower-tier" knows that everyone in the chapter really wants to be there, not just because they won the popularity contest.

One more thing: if you've been reading other threads, then you know sometimes GC posters say not-so-supportive things. Don't let random people with too much time on THEIR hands (let's all admit it) get you down. You asked a good question and for the most part have gotten great answers!

[UGAalum94]

Nice work, Fleur de Lis. I think you described it well.

OP, I don't think it was supposed to be taken really personally, but if you are likely to internalize the responses you get, posting on GC is almost guaranteed to make you unhappy.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be a nicer place or that you've done anything wrong (because you haven't), but the answers you get might not be 100% validating and supportive, and it's a risk of posting.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by blondebutsmart

Maybe I'm overanalyzing (part of my personality), but it didn't say:

collegians or pnm's with concerns = too much time on one's hands

or

collegians or pnm's with concerns = too much time on their hands



The comment used the word YOUR, so I took it personally because that's what it seemed like to me. Maybe I made a mistake. Sorry. I'm done.

I think you are overanalyzing it.

Sometimes people use the words "you" and "your" when they aren't neccessarily directing the post towards anyone... it's just a general "you" "your" reference.

[AOII Angel]

blondebutsmart,

Tiers only REALLY matter at southern schools. It's otherwise just used as a way to describe which groups are the most popular. That's no different than in high school when the group of popular girls were compared to a group of less popular girls. The girls in each group were usually not worried about which "tier" they were in because they were just hanging with their friends. The less popular girls may sometimes wish they were in a different "tier" when they thought about being Homecoming Queen or dating the cute quarterback, but usually they thought they probably wouldn't have much to say to the higher "tier" girls. It's the same thing in college. As for southern schools (like the SEC,) Mama's have raised their daughters with the idea that they can ONLY be an XYZ or an ABC. It is only acceptable to be one of these top tier members. This is why you hear about girls dropping out of rush rather than joining a lower tier group. It's stupid, but it serves those girls right for hanging onto these old social rules. They even write books about it!! If your Mama didn't drill into your head that you'd embarass the whole family if you joined DEF, than you'll be fine. Have a good time at recruitment.

[violetpretty]

Do tiers exits at most campuses? Of course. Do they matter? Nope. If being in a middle or low tier chapter was so horrible, those chapters would cease to exist. Obviously the members find their experience in their low and middle tier chapters valuable and rewarding or they wouldn't have pledged and stayed members for as long as they have. Sure, there are PNMs out there who drop out of recruitment when they don't get the invites that they want, but tons of women have just as good of an experience in a low or middle tier chapter as they do in a top tier. It all depends what you are looking for in a sorority.

ETA: Also, about mixing with fraternities/dating men in certain fraternities, I can think of lots of couples where it's not "top with top" or "low with low". I can think of couples where the girl is a low tier chapter dating a guy in a top tier chapter and vice versa. Maybe it matters more at other schools. Guys aren't going to not date you if you are in a low or middle tier chapter, unless those silly rules are true on some campuses.

[carnation]

Violetpretty, that has to be one of the best summaries of tiers that I’ve ever read!

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Also, about mixing with fraternities/dating men in certain fraternities, I can think of lots of couples where it's not "top with top" or "low with low". I can think of couples where the girl is a low tier chapter dating a guy in a top tier chapter and vice versa. Maybe it matters more at other schools. Guys aren't going to not date you if you are in a low or middle tier chapter, unless those silly rules are true on some campuses.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to date someone who would actually follow such a stupid "rule" anyway ... I mean, who's going to bawl their eyes out over a guy who wouldn't go out with them because he disapproved of sorority's campus status?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

I can't imagine why anyone would want to date someone who would actually follow such a stupid "rule" anyway ... I mean, who's going to bawl their eyes out over a guy who wouldn't go out with them because he disapproved of sorority's campus status?

I completely agree with that sentiment.

However, if you know that you want to meet the hotties in fraternity XYX, and you know that sorority WTH have regular socials with them and sorority QTPi doesn't, that's when you get yourself into making kind of funny tier based decisions.

It's not that their are strict rules anyplace that I know of, and I wish it weren't true, but at colleges where tiers are a big deal, a member of a lower tiered group might have to work a lot harder to meet members of top tier groups.

It's all kind of nuts but it's still kind of exists, and if that's what your social GLO organization joining priorities are. . .

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

It's not that their are strict rules anyplace that I know of, and I wish it weren't true, but at colleges where tiers are a big deal, a member of a lower tiered group might have to work a lot harder to meet members of top tier groups.

Maybe not "work harder" but just meet in different places other than mixers. Agreed that top tier and low tier chapters often do not have mixers together, but you can meet someone in class, or through some inter-Greek activity like Homecoming/Greek Week committee, IFC/PHA collaborations, Order of Omega, lobbying for the Greek Housing bill (ok only in DC), etc. All of these avenues are "tier-blind".

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Maybe not "work harder" but just meet in different places other than mixers. Agreed that top tier and low tier chapters often do not have mixers together, but you can meet someone in class, or through some inter-Greek activity like Homecoming/Greek Week committee, IFC/PHA collaborations, Order of Omega, lobbying for the Greek Housing bill (ok only in DC), etc. All of these avenues are "tier-blind".

One might think that, but I'm not sure it's true. If tiers are a well known aspect of Greek life, events that really should be all Greek or Inter-Greek don't end up that way.*

It's true that you can meet people other places than mixers, and I think most people do. But you don't have to be Greek for that either.

I'm not trying to defend tiers in any way. But I don't think we can wish away their effects either. Once there are established social networks between certain groups and their members, those networks don't necessarily disappear or cease to matter at other events. Again, it's not a formal, rule based thing, but if 20 of your sorority sister are dating guys at XYZ, it's easier to you to meet other XYZs than it is for the girl who doesn't have those other social connections.

*I don't mean to make too big a thing of getting to meet certain people in top-tiered groups. It's kind of silly. But if your looking for an improvement in your social life, it's might be a common thing for an 18 year old to consider.

ETA: UGA in the 1990s may been especially bad about not really mixing as a Greek system. There was no method of formal exclusion, but while you might have paired with a group for Homecoming or a Greek week event, you didn't necessarily interact with any other groups as part of the festivities, or at least that was my experience but I was kind of weird townie-Greek hybrid aspirant, so I wasn't working my fraternity guy connections as much as I guess a person could have.

[jwsteele]

Originally Posted by Fleur de Lis

blondebutsmart,

Sometimes it's just a bunch of shallow but beautiful girls that all wear designer clothes and get smashed with the hottest guys on campus, and for some reason this is attractive to PNMs.

I think sisters in "lower-tier" sororities often enjoy their experience more because "upper-tier" sisters may look around and think "ok, I joined this super popular house but I don't feel like I belong". The "lower-tier" knows that everyone in the chapter really wants to be there, not just because they won the popularity contest.

No.

As a long time lurker, there aren't many cases where I'll step out of the shadows and say something is wrong. But this attitude is 100% wrong.

First, as for the "lower-tier" sorority members knowing that everybody wanted them there, by playing devil's advocate you could say they'd feel like, "the only reason these girls really wanted me is because I was cut from other houses and the chapter's favorite girls cut them." Sound like an absurd claim? That's how your statement came off.

Second, on my campus I am in the unique position in that the two houses I am closest with are on very different ends of the spectrum. One is THE "blonde, rich girl" chapter and the other one isn't the lowest in terms of tiers, but pretty damn close. The reason why I was attracted to both groups is because they are both full of members who absolutely love their sorority and you can feel the bond at every event we're at with either one. On the other hand, I know of a "top chapter" and the "bottom chapter" at our school that have very poor sisterhood. The "bottom chapter" always has a terrible rush because they come off as desparate with low-morale (while the other bottom chapter has done well recently because they love their house despite reputations). The poor-sisterhood "top chapter" has had some challenging rushes recently because the PNMs they want the most have gone to the other two top chapters who have extremely strong sisterhood (and it shows).

So tiers don't matter, I agree with you there. However to suggest that the "pretty sororities" generally have a less meaningful time and are shallow just because they are pretty (and I can argue with that as well...in the "prettiest chapter" I just discussed there are many many many women who I'd say are plain or unattractive, they just had personalities that are extremely larger-than-life) is invalid. This is the complete opposite of the "give all chapters a chance" that is preached like gospel on GreekChat (and rightly so) but for some reason when somebody calls the "top chapters" out for unfounded reasons nobody blinks an eye. Why is that? Because in my experience statements like the ones above are just as unfounded as negative statements about smaller chapters.

Just some food for thought.

[jwsteele]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

blondebutsmart,

Tiers only REALLY matter at southern schools.

I'm mostly in agreement but would also say to include a couple more schools that also have very competitive rushes (ie, Texas, USC, Miami Ohio, etc). From what I understand in those few outside-the-SEC competitive rushes tiers matter a bit as well. But I'd agree that on the vast majority of campuses tiers really do not matter.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by jwsteele

I'm mostly in agreement but would also say to include a couple more schools that also have very competitive rushes (ie, Texas, USC, Miami Ohio, etc). From what I understand in those few outside-the-SEC competitive rushes tiers matter a bit as well. But I'd agree that on the vast majority of campuses tiers really do not matter.

At other schools, tiers can be obvious during recruitment, BUT the tiers are fairly fluid and I have seen one good/bad pledge class turn a chapter around more than once.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by blondebutsmart

I'm not worried about the tiers! That was the point. I can't understand why people in the recruitment process seem so worried about what tier the sorority is rather than how they fit with the other girls. I wanted to clarify that tiers were what I thought they were (popularity based on looks, grades, and money).

PNMs worry about tiers because most PNMs are teenaged girls who are very concerned with appearances and want to join the most prestigious groups. Tiers are not based on grades or money or awards won. They're based on looks and popularity. That's it. It's silly and superficial-- tiers are completely artificial. They're a ranking developed in people's minds. And different people will have different impressions of what chapter falls into what tier.

Chapters spend a lot time and effort working to achieve an image that they are the all-around great girls that you want to emulate or aspire to be a part of. If you join a sorority, you will be expected to participate in sorority activities that work toward this purpose: academic standards, leadership training, working together in the sorority in teams to plan events and community service activities, sisterhood retreats, moral and ethical standards, considering your words and actions and how they affect others as well as how they affect others' views of your sorority, and participating in activities outside of the sorority to contribute to the well-roundedness, etc.

I hope this helps to explain the idea behind tiers-- there are no official tiers-- just the imaginary construct of the students involved with Greek Life. Please don't hesitate from asking questions. Just try to frame them constructively. From time to time, we get new posters who are here just to ridicule or chide Greeks and Greek Life, so understandably, the regulars are a bit jaded.

Good luck with recruitment. If you aren't sure if you want to join a sorority but you are curious about the Greek System, recruitment week will help you see if it is something you might enjoy being a part of.