U. of Georgia: Porn on Their Minds?

[macallan25]

Frankly...I wouldn't put it past a few douchebaggish freshmen to do something like that..........

[EE-BO]

Exactly.

JessXica, I am sorry I snapped at you earlier. No need for me to have done that, but macallan25 is echoing my suspicions here.

Macallan25 I think suspects the same thing I do- that this might well be the unilateral action of a few freshmen.

I was a pledge and then active in my GLO at 2 large schools with big, but different, Greek systems. While in grad school at the place where I had reaffiliated during undergrad, I still helped out at my chapter sometimes. And today I am an advisor of that chapter.

My point is that I have been around all this for a long time and it is my experience that often times freshmen, or guys in general, get it in their heads to do something dumb. And if they happen to be aligned with a fraternity, the hazing accusations are almost automatic.

You are right that a reasonable person would look at this and say something to the effect of, "Who would do this on their own? They must have been forced to do it."

That is a reasonable assumption to make. My frustration is that I know otherwise having seen this kind of thing happen before (though usually just some weird random stuff that was not offensive like this.)

[Tom Earp]

While none of us may know whether it was a hazing situation or just a problem of stupity seems to be more the question.

All of a sudden because it is Black Women it is Hazing (?) Descrimination(?)

If it was White Women would it be consider either or?

In a Big Walnut Shell, it should be considered stupid and insensative.

Oh, throw IGNORANT in for a little spice to the Pot!

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

All of a sudden because it is Black Women it is Hazing (?) Descrimination(?)

If it was White Women would it be consider either or?

Um, no.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

All of a sudden because it is Black Women it is Hazing (?) Descrimination(?)

Not as I see it. Forget hazing for a moment. Let's just focus on the act itself,

1. The uninvited presentation of nude women in a porno to others was going to be very offensive to many who saw it (which was the whole point.)

2. Taking photographs of people's reaction to a staged situation (i.e. in a moment of shock or surprise) was a gross invasion of privacy.

3. The fact the men were white and the nude women were black adds a new dimension because many people would assume there was a racial slur intended- whether it was intended or not.

Each of these three elements is a separate thing. Any one of them on their own is grounds for the University to at least investigate a complaint. Put all 3 together in one incident- and why wouldn't a reasonable person assume all 3 were part of the mentality with malicious intent?

For anyone who is, or was, active in a GLO as an undergrad (and some of you AIs too if you work with a local chapter)- you have probably noticed that Executive Officers of active chapters tend to be a bit more "uptight".

They are like this (and I was like this) because they have been in college a while, are more mature (in most cases) and have a much clearer picture of how the behavior of even 2-3 members can bring on a PR nightmare to a chapter.

In my own experience I have gotten to know people in a lot of chapters at two major schools- and even more as an advisor.

Even in a chapter known for hazing, I have yet to meet the pledge trainer or other Executive officer who would force pledges to do something so stupid in such a public arena.

It may be logical to assume that noone would do something like this unless they were ordered too.

But for anyone who is Greek, we know that it is even less logical that the leadership of a chapter- regardless of their stance on hazing in general- would force or even allow something like this to happen.

That is what makes me think this was likely an idea inspired by one of the participants. At the very least, I am open to the possibility.

[notyouraverage]

When I was a freshman, I had a psych assignment to "break a societal norm" and record reactions, then write a paper on it. I attended a women's college at that time so I don't think any of us would have thought of using pornography, but a lot of the stunts we pulled were similar in shock value. I'm not saying these guys were doing this for a paper, but it's something to think about. I was actually disgusted by the apparent conclusion in the article and the subsequent ones that because they are in a greek organization, they must have been forced to do it. What about the participant from another school? If they hadn't been greek, who would care?

[Tom Earp]

Sounds like there should have been a Pin Head alert and the Local Po Pos should ahve been called.

Where was the Chapter Advisor when all of this was going on?

[greekalum]

Tom, if you read the article, you would have seen that the police WERE called. The police do not plan to file charges since no laws appear to have been broken.

ETA also, unless fraternities function vastly differently than sororities in this regard, I can't imagine that chapter advisors are required to follow their pledges around campus at all times, even during the day in the middle of the week (when this occurred).

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by greekalum

ETA also, unless fraternities function vastly differently than sororities in this regard, I can't imagine that chapter advisors are required to follow their pledges around campus at all times, even during the day in the middle of the week (when this occurred).

You are right- we aren't. In fact, the real trick of being a good advisor is letting a chapter make their own decisions and only stepping in forcefully when you see something serious that needs immediate correction.

We are still waiting on the facts, but this appears to me to have been one of those random incidents that was not planned in advance. Greek houses change over time, but the UGA Chi Phi chapter I knew when I was at UGA (I was not a Chi Phi to be clear) would never have sanctioned something like this. And it would be impossible for any advisor to anticipate this incident if it was, as I suspect, not reflective of the chapter's general attitude.

Since this is the Risk Management forum, here is the RM point I made a moment ago in the Greek Life forum where we are discussing the first attack article on the situation,

"I do not think, based on the facts known to date, that Chi Phi has been fairly treated in this article. And this will not be the last mention of it I fear.

But this is the reality that could have been forseen.

The Risk Management issue here is that any fraternity needs to gather its pledges together the DAY they are formally tapped in and let them know the ground rules. Not just the rules of how to conduct one's self, but the rules about who is allowed to give orders and who to approach among the officers if something like this incident is ever ordered.

We may never know if these guys did this on their own, or were prompted. But the risk management approach I mention above should deal with that assuming the chapter does not consider this action acceptable."

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Sounds like there should have been a Pin Head alert and the Local Po Pos should ahve been called.

Where was the Chapter Advisor when all of this was going on?

What, do you think the Chapter Advisor should be following around pledges and fraternity members all day everyday?

[greekalum]

I can't believe macallan and I are agreeing on things lately.

[exlurker]

An update on the results of the investigation, penalties, etc., is in the Sept. 27 '06 issue of the online student paper:

http://www.redandblack.com/vnews/dis.../4519ed045445f

Reportedly the picture-flashing and picture-taking was "not required" by the fraternity. Also, reportedly, this wasn't the first time it's been done.

[shinerbock]

Another interesting note, a local NAACP chapter is apparently considering the matter. They said they would issue a response or statement to the Chi Phi fraternity and to KA...I don't understand what their thing is with KA, other than KA was considering building a antebellum style fraternity house on a predominantly black street. There has also been controversy here before over Old South, but they didn't do it last year, which I think is absurd.

[EE-BO]

Thanks for posting the article exlurker.

I think there are two excellent Risk Management points that arise from the content of the article you have linked,

1. Stories about the "old days".

As an alum I have heard some really interesting stories about the "old days" of my chapter- and I am even in a couple of them. The stories have been embellished, as any good story is, but when it comes to stories there is a very real danger that pledges will take what they hear to be fact and do something foolish in the hopes of "measuring up".

This is a perfect example of that since the article indicates that the pledges did this because they heard someone else did it before- and thought it would be funny to do it again.

But leaving aside whether it was an appropriate activity, note that the pledges took a LOT of pictures. If this really did happen in the past and noone got caught, does anything think the group that did it before stood around for a very long time and took a ton of photos? Or would they have done it a couple of times and taken off?

The lesson is not to have pledges do things like this very quickly and then leave, but the actual story of the incident is a perspective on just how freshman don't think about what they are doing the first time they escape the confines of home. How smart was it to hang around and do this over and over and over again?

2. Carefully planning pledge activities BEFORE the semester starts.

Whether you find this incident funny or not (I must confess it is kinda funny), does anyone here think that a pledge educator or officer of a fraternity would ever be intelligent to let this take place in a public place?

A good pledge program is hard and a hell of a good time in ways that non-Greeks won't understand.

But a good pledge program is also planned out in advance with very clear guidelines about what can and cannot happen overall- and specifically what can and cannot happen in the public eye.

A pretty good rule of thumb (and something we always abided by when I was an active) is that no brother- not even the pledge educator- is left alone with the pledge class as a group to give them orders. And especially not when people have been drinking (though it is not clear that was the case here- I am just pointing it out.)

Having that second guy around when things are going on is very important. It is one more step towards making sure that these kinds of things don't happen. While the concept itself is fairly harmless, this is a PR nightmare waiting to happen because of where it was taking place.


On a final note- I think UGA stuck with the right charge. Now that the facts are presented, hazing and racism do not seem to apply at all. I wonder if some who rushed to judgment- including someone claiming to speak for a Chi Phi brother- will be willing to rethink their positions or at least explain why their positions are still justifiable (to each his own- but at least state your case.)

That said, I find it amazing that colleges still think forced "re-education" programs (diversity training etc.) do any good at all. If anything, it just alienates people even more after the public trashing they get in the media for what was a dumb kid mistake that happened to push certain buttons but was otherwise no different from any other dumb kid mistake.

[GA-Beta]

Chi Phis charged on multiple counts
Frat does not accept criminal behavior

By JUANITA COUSINS
Published , November 15, 2006, 06:00:01 AM EDT

A Chi Phi member already on probation for flashing pornography at passers-by in September was arrested early Tuesday and charged with a felony count of criminal damage.

University Police arrested Chi Phi members Harris Thomas Culley and Ryan Andrew Smith at about 2:53 a.m. when an officer saw them running from the Baptist Campus Ministries on Lumpkin Street after a window of the building was broken, a police report said.

This is the second time a Chi Phi member involved with the porn incident at Tate has gotten into further trouble.

Athens-Clarke County Police arrested Drewry Allen Littlewood Oct. 11 and charged him with underage possession of alcohol.

The Office of Judicial Programs found Littlewood, Culley and five other Chi Phi members guilty of violating the University’s sexual harassment policy in September and placed them on one year of probation.

“Any violation of University Conduct Regulations while on probation may result in suspension from the University,” the resolution signed by the men on Sept. 14 said.

Claudia Shamp, director of Greek Life, said Littlewood, Smith and Culley’s actions have been individual situations, but she has had conversations with the chapter president and advisers.

“It obviously is a concern when it keeps popping up,” said Shamp, whose son is a member of Chi Phi. “Some people within the group seem to be having issues.”

A University officer was patrolling campus Tuesday morning when he heard the sound of breaking glass coming from the Baptist Campus Ministries.

According to the report, he saw Culley and Smith running from the building down Hull Street and stopped them.

The officer smelled alcohol on their breath and arrested the men.

Culley was charged with second-degree criminal damage to property, underage possession of alcohol and possession of a fake ID. Smith was charged with underage possession of alcohol and possession of a fake ID.

Both were released on bail from ACC jail by noon Tuesday, but efforts to reach them were unsuccessful.

Matthew Hughes, president of Chi Phi, said Culley has been removed from the chapter and Smith is suspended.

“At Chi Phi we do not tolerate behavior like that,” he said.

Hughes said he has done everything to communicate his fraternity’s expectations to its members.

“We had a situation that occurred this fall and since then we have taken the necessary actions,” Hughes said. “We have made it very clear to the members of the chapter what behavior is acceptable.”

Wakeford Thompson, Interfraternity Council vice president for public relations, said IFC knows of the Tuesday night incident but has not prepared a statement.

But Chi Phi’s repeated offenses are hitting a sour note with other University leaders.

Pat Daugherty, assistant vice president for Student Affairs, said she found the number of incidents “very concerning.”

“Certainly when a group or person is on probation, it is very serious when they get into trouble again,” Daugherty said. “We will be looking at it closely and going through the proper judicial channels.”