Should the system of Quota be changed? A look at the Nebraska system

[shinerbock]

One day, I hope we stop concerning ourselves so much with how people feel. This self esteem boosting weakens people in the long run.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by carnation

[ETA: At the risk of sounding insensitive, why is there so much concern over unhappy PNMs?

Nobody likes to see people be torn up, especially good people who deserve better. I've spoken before of how horrible it was when I had to sit in the room at Mississippi State where the girls got their returns and so many were cut by groups they wanted or groups that their older friends were in or their fellow PNMs were still being invited back to.

Rejection of any kind is devastating.

I know how tough it can be both on the part of the PNM and the sorority women. And it's not easy to cut wonderful women. But, why let that be a big consideration when you (general you) already have your own sorority's health to worry about? That seems like a lot of added stress! Plus, not everyone will fit with the values of a particular sorority. And many PNMs won't fit in any sorority on campus. That's doesn't mean the PNMs isn't amazing...just that she isn't a good fit.

I think what concerns me is that more and more PNMs should be placed in the different sororities seems to reinforce the stereotype that NPC orgs are interchangeable, as if it's all one big sorority and each sorority is a different chapter within the big sorority. In reality, each sorority has it's own history and purpose, not to mention its own ethos. So, it's not surprising that it's not always a perfect fit. You know? (I don't know if that made sense!)

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I know how tough it can be both on the part of the PNM and the sorority women. And it's not easy to cut wonderful women. But, why let that be a big consideration when you (general you) already have your own sorority's health to worry about? That seems like a lot of added stress! Plus, not everyone will fit with the values of a particular sorority. And many PNMs won't fit in any sorority on campus. That's doesn't mean the PNMs isn't amazing...just that she isn't a good fit.

I think what concerns me is that more and more PNMs should be placed in the different sororities seems to reinforce the stereotype that NPC orgs are interchangeable, as if it's all one big sorority and each sorority is a different chapter within the big sorority. In reality, each sorority has it's own history and purpose, not to mention its own ethos. So, it's not surprising that it's not always a perfect fit. You know? (I don't know if that made sense!)

Yes, and there will always be PNMs who don't fit. But it seems to work better if the sororities look out for the panhel as a whole then for their individual chapters. No one's suggesting that the NPC favors quantity over quality.. that's actually one of the fastest ways a chapter can collapse.

Yeah, it really sucks to see PNMs who are devestated, but many of them would have found a chapter that fit them if they hadn't listened to gossip or only considered "elite" chapters. That's why rotationals are required, so that you see EVERY chapter. But that doesn't keep some 18 year old from looking at them with an open mind. I feel that if PNMs were more prone to making their own judgements instead of following the peer pressure crowd, more would be happy.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

But it's in the NPCs best interest to have an overall strong Greek system. Too few chapters means more women without bids, means more anti-Greek feeling, etc.

Ok - this makes sense to me. It sounds like NPC sororities are all like sisters to each other more than competition. I see how that's a great thing, but isn't it hard to maintain your identity in the bigger family?

We feel that encouraging Greek Life in general helps each of our sororities in particular.

Absolutely. Theta Nu Xi strongly supports Greek Life and Unity, but we definitely do it in another way. Maybe that's an asset to all though. We're getting at different aspects of anti-Greek sentiment.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Ok - this makes sense to me. It sounds like NPC sororities are all like sisters to each other more than competition. I see how that's a great thing, but isn't it hard to maintain your identity in the bigger family?

Absolutely. Theta Nu Xi strongly supports Greek Life and Unity, but we definitely do it in another way. Maybe that's an asset to all though. We're getting at different aspects of anti-Greek sentiment.

Well there's the difficult bit. Everyone knows that the chapters on campus don't always get along. We ARE girls after all. It's easy for me to step back now and not roll my eyes at members of XYZ, but a year ago.. geez man they were the enemy!

Luckily our HQs are able to step back and try to work for Greek Life as a whole. On campus, panhel has to enforce the rules, and generally they get along just fine, but you don't lose your identity in some panhellenic org, because there isn't one. Does that make sense?

On the national level, we all work together even though we are distinct. On the campus level, we're made to work together even though we are distinct.

[ADPi Conniebama]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Let's say it is a big year at State U. and twice as many women (400) go through formal. 200 is the number needed to get each chapter at total. The remaining 200 PNMs would be divided by the number of chapters. 200/5=20 This number would be considered "quota additions" and would be the same for each chapter.

Thus each chapter's quota/result would be as follows.

ABC: 80 returning members. 20 open spots + 20 quota addition = 40 new members. New chapter total = 120
DEF: 70 returning members. 30 open spots + 20 quota addition = 50 new members. New chapter total = 120
GHI: 60 returning members. 40 open spots + 20 quota addition = 60 new members. New chapter total = 120
JKL: 50 returning members. 50 open spots + 20 quota addition = 70 new members. New chapter total = 120
MNO: 40 returning members. 60 open spots + 20 quota addition = 80 new members. New chapter total = 120

Of course, something could be worked out so that if a chapter doesn't make quota or total, they can COB and snap away up to the new total.

Frankly, if all chapters are *equal* - and that is what the NPC preaches - then why not set up a system that has a better chance of reflecting it number wise?

Once the chapters are "equal" (say within a certain preordained number or within a certain percentage of each other) then the campus can go back to the "standard" system of quota.

I like it - lets do it

[33girl]

The big problem I can see with this is getting screwed if you don't have an equal distribution among classes - i.e. all of a sudden one year half the sorority graduates. But I guess that happens sometimes anyway even w/ a regular quota system.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Thus each chapter's quota/result would be as follows.

ABC: 80 returning members. 20 open spots + 20 quota addition = 40 new members. New chapter total = 120
DEF: 70 returning members. 30 open spots + 20 quota addition = 50 new members. New chapter total = 120
GHI: 60 returning members. 40 open spots + 20 quota addition = 60 new members. New chapter total = 120
JKL: 50 returning members. 50 open spots + 20 quota addition = 70 new members. New chapter total = 120
MNO: 40 returning members. 60 open spots + 20 quota addition = 80 new members. New chapter total = 120

I think this sounds good in theory, but two things stand out to me here.

One, I can't imagine how a chapter would operate with twice as many new members as returning members (as would be the case with MNO). Seriously, can you really fathom what a chapter of 40 would do with 80 new members?

Two, if MNO has only 40 returning members, while ABC has twice that, I would be surprised if PNMs would view MNO as ABCs equal. While it would be nice for PNMs to have an open mind, not all of them do. And, it's likely that many would see MNO as inferior, simply because there aren't as many of them as there are ABC. Thus, it would be unlikely that MNO could even get 80 new members from formal recruitment alone.

[carnation]

I still don't understand why some people are wondering why we should be concerned about brokenhearted PNMs! These women are our friends, our daughters, our sisters! And sure, some people wouldn't make good Greeks but they may not know that yet and all they can concentrate on at age 18 or so is the rejection.

If you or someone close to you has been hurt in recruitment, you understand what I mean.

[NUBlue&Blue]

That's interesting, and I think that they've always done it that way. I was a bit "distracted" in college, always had big boyfriend drama going, so I really don't remember a lot of the details, but I do remember that some houses would have pretty small pledge classes (about 10 or so less than the average).

Also, I don't know if it's still the case, but because we had relatively large houses, you HAD to live in the house, but the numbers were also flexible because it also depended on how many Lincoln girls you had in each pledge class. So it also depended on the size of the sorority house, and how many you could house there. I really don't remember anybody who lived out of the house after freshman year, and if you were an upperclassman pledge, you had to move in at the semester if there was room (from graduation in December, usually).

This is all a dim memory, but I've finally figured out why I really never could understand all the talk on here about total....but I figured I just wasn't paying attention. Sounds like a little of both!

[sdbeta1]

So at what point are new sororities asked to come onto campus? If houses are reaching quotas, and girls aren't getting bid then that means there is supply for another sorority. Whereas, if the total is changing, houses would keep getting bigger and bigger until they reach the point of not wanting more members. So in the case of Nebraska, is there ever a time when they see houses as being too big?

[NUBlue&Blue]

You're talking about a sorority system that is OLD--meaning my chapter celebrated its centennial when I was in college over 20 years ago, and most chapters are a single greek letter. "New" sororities are ones that came on campus in the 30's or 40's. Those two have gone on and off campus a couple of times over the years, mostly with housing issues, I think. They were the only two that had "open rush" when I was in school, using the terms from the olden days.

I can't speak with any authority, though, I haven't lived there nor paid much attention to what is going on there for 20 years. The only thing I can say is that in an old system, change doesn't come easily. I look at the chapter websites and the ABC's still look like ABC's and the XYZ's still look like the XYZ's.

[FSUZeta]

chapters with a history of high return rates(a high percentage of girls wanting to return to their next party) have to release a higher percentage of pnms than those chapters whose return rates are not as high. this is done in the hopes that those pnms, who are released from the more "popular" chapters will hang around, accept the invitations that have been extended to them, and find a home.

of the campuses that i know that use this model, it has not hurt the chapters who have had to release more pnms early on. they are still making quota-couldn't say if more pnms are accepting bids overall.

(this is why some of us encourage pnms to try to obtain recs. to as many sororities on their campuses as they can-it is difficult to get to know a lot about a young woman in 15 or 20 minutes- a rec. provides more info,including background info., clubs, activities, honors and might help keep the pnm off the early release list)

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by exlurker

Number of Invitations to Parties?

On the subject of "devastated" or "disappointed" PNMs -- I just read a post in another thread about Auburn's fall '06 schedule. Days 1 & 2 -- all 16 chapters; Days 3 & 4 -- up to 12 chapters; Day 5 -- up to 6 chapters; Day 6 (Pref) -- 3 chapters. I was wondering if, in combination with using release figures, college panhellenics (not just Auburn, not just SEC) are also taking steps to maximize the number of parties a PNM will be invited to (while of course allowing chapters to make membership selection decisions along the way).
What I'm getting at is this: panhellenics apparently don't want "super-popular" chapters to string some PNMs along when there's no way they'll pref or bid them. That's fine. But, are panhellenics making efforts to ensure that, as much as possible, PNMs do get a chance to be invited to "the max" number of parties for each round, so that both the PNMs and the chapters have (maybe) more chances to make connections and see if there's a possible fit?
I ask because I can understand how it might be disappointing to be cut from a few "super-popular" chapters. However, for young women who ARE willing to keep an open mind (and have the grades, recs, good personalities/reputations, etc.) I can believe that it
would be a real blow to receive far fewer invitations than the "max" for a given round.
Just wondering, and of course I may be way off base compared to what actually happens in the SEC and other highly competitive recruitments.

Sort of related - I noticed from Carnation's Auburn post on the SEC thread that first round PNMs go to 16 parties, then 2nd round they go to 12. Back in the day at Illinois, we went to 22 parties first round and had to cut down to 8 for second round. I don't know if Illinois still does that (I know they don't have 22 anymore) but it is impossible for PNMs to give chapters a chance when they have to cut so many so soon. I am glad to see that at least Auburn lets them keep a lot of chapters for a second look.

ETA: Our parties were 22-8-5-3, the current website says this year it will be 20-10-6-3. 20 to 10 is still a huge cut.

[carnation]

I'm glad that Auburn has stretched out the rush week as well. When I was there, we did 14-9-5-3-2 and those 14 ice water teas were ALL in one day. It didn't help the PNMs who didn't yet know the sororities at all but then back in the day, AU was kind of set up for the people who had always known the campus, always known they'd be going there. It was like rush was set up for the sororities to quickly cut down to the women whom they were truly considering and they'd known who they were for ages.