Third-Party Providers and Wet Social Policies

[PsychTau2]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
Is your campus so full of alcoholics that they can't mesh for an hour or so without alcohol? Damn.

I'm going to attempt to stay out of the arguement regarding what Penn State is like because I don't know (I went to school in Arkansas in A DRY COUNTY...in the 90's. It was interesting.)

However....I do want to give a huge AMEN to PM_Mama's above statement. I don't understand why students have no coping skills when it comes to dry events. Seriously, it's like they cannot socialize with anyone else unless there is alcohol involved. We're not saying that once you join a GLO you can never drink a beer again. We're just saying that there's a time when you cannot drink, and then there's times you can.

The bonds of brotherhood and sisterhood are made by enjoying each other and being real with each other...that doesn't happen with alcohol on board. I'd challenge ANY chapter who promotes that they have a true, solid brotherhood/sisterhood bond, but who plans every event around alcohol (either by having alcohol at the event or by the whole chapter arriving at a dry event drunk) to explain to me exactly how they built such a strong brotherhood/sisterhood. (I'll bet they describe events/situations that don't involve alcohol, thereby proving that they CAN interact without alcohol on board)
PsychTau

[PsychTau2]

Originally posted by Little E
]I have a question. Is it just AST or all NPCs (I assume it is all) that does not allow events where alcohol is the main function of the event?

I'm pretty sure that ALL NPC sororities have a policy against functions where the main focus is to consume alcohol. However, each group may have it worded differently. I do know that no NPC group can host a BYOB event (right?). So anything involving alcohol would have to be Third Party Vendor.

The rest of your post contains some very good points!

PsychTau

[Little E]

Awww thanks Teena, I like your post too!

[33girl]

Originally posted by Little E
I just do not understand how chapters are allowed to have chapter events at bars, establishments whose main function is alcoholic beverage service. I'm seriously confused on how this works. Why would you even have a chapter event that every sister could not legally attend? Isn't the idea of a fraternity/sorority social to bond with your sisters and also give everyone in the org a chance to bond/meet people in another org?

(I went to a college where we did not have mixers.)

You rent out the bar/hall/whatever, so it is closed to the public.

The bar realizes that there are underage people there and doesn't serve them - they card them. This way the onus is on the bar and not the sorority/fraternity.

It's the same as if you would rent out TGIFriday's or someplace like that - those who are legal can drink, but if you aren't you can't. And from what I've learned on here, there are states where you can go to a bar if you are under 21, you just can't drink.

PA has problems with this because unless it's a restaurant type establishment (i.e. at least 50% of sales is food), underagers are not allowed in, but there are a lot of places you would NEVER think make it over that line and do. (Not that I would actually ingest the food there)

[33girl]

Originally posted by PsychTau2
The bonds of brotherhood and sisterhood are made by enjoying each other and being real with each other...that doesn't happen with alcohol on board. I'd challenge ANY chapter who promotes that they have a true, solid brotherhood/sisterhood bond, but who plans every event around alcohol (either by having alcohol at the event or by the whole chapter arriving at a dry event drunk) to explain to me exactly how they built such a strong brotherhood/sisterhood. (I'll bet they describe events/situations that don't involve alcohol, thereby proving that they CAN interact without alcohol on board)
PsychTau

Oh come on, we're getting a little sanctimonious here.

I had fun sisterly moments that involved alcohol. I also had fun sisterly moments that didn't involve alcohol. I am betting nearly everyone on here (including the people from Penn State) would say the same thing.

To say your bonds aren't "real" or "true" if alcohol is involved is pretty darned presumptuous and arrogant. That's kind of like the people on here who say they can't understand how there's real sisterhood when your chapter has so many members/so few members/doesn't have a house etc etc.

[honeychile]

Does any other GLO use the wrist bands? Only those over 21 and their over 21 dates wear them, so the bartenders know who can be served and who is not to be served alcohol.

And I also think that 33Girl speaks the truth!

[tunatartare]

the place we have our formal at uses them

[Denise_DPhiE]

National officers/regional directors etc READ greekchat. HELLO?!?!?!?! If you've got ABC Sorority from XYZ State U as your screen name, DUH - your chapter is going to be looked at for risk management violations. Maybe your consultant wil show up at one of these third party bar nights and start looking at IDs. Sheeeesh!

Denise

[PsychTau2]

Originally posted by 33girl
I had fun sisterly moments that involved alcohol. I also had fun sisterly moments that didn't involve alcohol.

33girl....exactly my point. Not every single moment you have with your chapter (or with other chapters) has to include alcohol in order to bond and have a good time. I hear more and more students host dry events "because we HAVE to" or "because it looks good on our Standards/5 Star/Whatever Plan"...not "because it will be fun."

My point is that some students seem afraid to plan an event and show up sober because they fear that they won't have fun. Often they have a great time, but they can't see that they will have a great time beforehand. Apparently it's not cool to admit that you can have fun without alcohol anymore (whether you are greek or not)...and that's a shame.

To say your bonds aren't "real" or "true" if alcohol is involved is pretty darned presumptuous and arrogant. That's kind of like the people on here who say they can't understand how there's real sisterhood when your chapter has so many members/so few members/doesn't have a house etc etc.

I'm saying that if every single (and I mean every single) time you interact with your brothers/sisters (outside of chapter business meetings) involves alcohol consumption, then the bond isn't complete without alcohol present. Remove alcohol, and the relationship changes. I've seen alums come back to Homecoming events, make a 30 minute appearance, and then disappear to drink with their old drinking buddies. Very little interaction with anyone outside of their original partying group, and even then they are focused on how soon they can get to the bars. I'm sure you've seen 2 or 3 (or more) people who are best friends, but do nothing but drink together. And you've seen people who are best friends, but do all sorts of activities together. It's just a different relationship. I know...I've experienced it. I've had "drinking buddies" and I've had best friends...and they aren't the same relationship.

From my first post:

The bonds of brotherhood and sisterhood are made by enjoying each other and being real with each other...that doesn't happen with alcohol on board. I'd challenge ANY chapter who promotes that they have a true, solid brotherhood/sisterhood bond, but who plans every event around alcohol (either by having alcohol at the event or by the whole chapter arriving at a dry event drunk) to explain to me exactly how they built such a strong brotherhood/sisterhood. (I'll bet they describe events/situations that don't involve alcohol, thereby proving that they CAN interact without alcohol on board)

My point with the above paragraph (it sounds like it wasn't clear) is to use a little "reverse psychology" on these groups. If they keep saying "No one will come if they can't drink" "It won't be fun if we can't drink" "We'll just drink beforehand so we'll have a good time", then I'd turn the question around and ask them how they became so very close to their brothers/sisters. 99% of the time they will talk about situations or events they experienced with each other when alcohol wasn't present...which proves the point that they CAN socialize and have fun without alcohol. Sometimes you have to reframe the situation before they'll "get it" and make changes (or quit complaining about the rules! )

Don't get me wrong...I had some great times with my fellow Greeks when alcohol was present. But we had some great times completely sober too. It seems like ALL college students these days can't see the great times they have when sober. THAT is what bothers me.

Overall I think it's a student developmental issue...but it's one that GLO's can address by giving members the opportunity to enjoy themselves without alcohol. We've just got to get them to see it first.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying that the above attitudes are GLOBAL...some individuals/groups/campsuses don't have the above issues. I'm not assuming that every single college student falls into the above categories. Take what works, leave the rest).

PsychTau

[PenguinTrax]

This portion of the discussion was moved from a thread in the Rush forum.

For original context, please see:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...threadid=70661

[KSUViolet06]

I believe ALL NPC's are allowed to have alcohol at events if served by a 3rd party vendor (i.e. a bar). It's not that EVERY social event we had has to have alcohol. We only have alcohol @ semi formal, formal, and maybe one fraternity social at a bar.

[PM_Mama00]

In the case of Phi Mu, or at least what I was told when I planned formals, we had to give a list to the bartender or owner of the hall where we were holding semi/formal or the people who were 21 and up and ONLY those on the list were allowed to be served. If they were 21^ and not on the list (last minute date changes) they still couldn't be served... but we remembered to add the names.

Even if we go to a restaurant as a sisterhood event, 21^ weren't allowed to drink because it was an official Phi Mu event. Even though they said that 5+ sisters was an official sisterhood event, if a bunch of girls randomly went out for lunch we didn't consider it. I think the whole 5+ sisters rule is kinda ridiculous.

[WVU alpha phi]

Originally posted by ADqtPiMel
Um, so your chapter exec doesn't check IDs at all? We always have our parties at bars that open to the public after our party, but our girls know that if they try and use a fake at our party, they'll get caught.

Our chapter exec knows our ages, but we have contracts signed with the owners of the bar before every party dealing with liability, specifically for the reason that IF something were to happen (which it never has), then Alpha Phi is not responsible. I guess it somehow works out that the bouncers who check the IDs then assume responsibility.

Originally posted by WVU alpha phi
Our chapter exec knows our ages, but we have contracts signed with the owners of the bar before every party dealing with liability, specifically for the reason that IF something were to happen (which it never has), then Alpha Phi is not responsible. I guess it somehow works out that the bouncers who check the IDs then assume responsibility.

I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. Again, I'm sorry.

Who hires the bouncers? You guys? The bar? In most cases, it's the bar, right? If the bar hired them, then they'd be responsible. If it were you guys, then you'd be responsible, right? Is there an independent bouncer company that operates for the sole purpose of working the door at frat and sorority parties?

Dunno, it's been my experience as a bartender that these bouncers are entrusted and most likely under some kind of responsiblity of the bar because these are the freaking people who have the first say as to who gets to drink and NOT.

I just find it hard to believe because any bar who cares about its business and reputation would give a shit about a) not getting slapped with fines and b) not getting stiffed with monetary penalties just because some fraternity and/or sorority wanted to have a function at their venue.

[Xylochick216]

We always had a bouncer at the door checking IDs (provided by the bar/place we'd have things) as well as a few members of exec checking the guestlist and verifying who was or wasn't 21. Even though the bouncer was responsible for checking IDs, we had our own people to make sure that someone didn't get by with a fake. I know it stinks for people who aren't 21, but they can suck it up and not drink at the bar. It's not that difficult. Besides, I'd rather have the under 21 members not drink than have them drink and ruin things for everyone in the future.