subtle hazing

Originally posted by ktsnake

I really don't get into lecturing individuals from small local fraternities. I seem to recall him saying they had around 6 members or so.. (maybe I'm wrong?).

Whether 6 guys want to have "tradition", make younger guys get them drinks and stuff like that or not is really nothing I'm going to ever worry about. Horny, your group is called the "Lancers" or something like that, right? It doesn't even take on a Greek name..

If it's illegal where you're at, it's on you and your alums if something should go wrong.. You obviously know that, and are continuing to do it. I could care less whether you get caught or not. Whether you do or not will make no difference in all likelihood to anyone not associated with your group. Best of luck doing what y'all do.

Technically Whittier College doesn't have a Greek life, but they have "societies" -- which is pretty much similar to it. An Alpha Gam chapter sister was a Palmer before she came to UHM and joined us.

You don't like it when GCers lecture those from small local fraternities...and I can't stand it when those from small local/non NPC orgs call us "weak" (I'm refraining from what they usually call us) just because our pledge/NM program isn't as rigorous as theirs.

[PhoenixAzul]

Originally posted by kddani
It's the medieval times of fraternities! Totally reminds me of the Carnegie Mellon nerds that I would see dressed up in medieval costumes doing fake sword fighting and jousting over in the park that separates our campuses. Wow, those people were just SO cool

hehehe, I was/am one of those kids...muwahaha. It's good times. Just don't get in the middle of an intense game of Vampire:The maquerade .

PS, I can't stand it when members from nationals lecture us on how our pledge programs are hazing and how we could merge with a national....no one has moral high ground here.

[unsure05]

Thanks everyone. Both sides of your arguments helped me sort things out. Yes, I knew it wouldn't be easy but I expected I didn't expect to despise seeing my line sisters and elders. And personally, if I were to pick sisters who would uphold the sorority ideals of leadership etc, I would not want girls who would agree to be treated this way. I'd want girls who would say, "No. I don't take sh*t from anybody!"

I've made the decision to bow out but I'm really afraid of talking to any board members or whatnot so I won't. One person can't change a system.

[Little E]

Good Luck with whatever happens.

Just from my experience: Remember that pettiness can bloom post-deactivation. Keep your head high and if they harass you at all, stear clear of being alone w/them. Something to keep in mind if anyone asks why you left is how much do you really want the world to know. If you are worried about the reaction from this group keep your reasons to yourself to prevent drama.

Originally posted by unsure05
I've made the decision to bow out but I'm really afraid of talking to any board members or whatnot so I won't. One person can't change a system.

No one's expecting you to be the hero and save the day. You can't change the system singlehandedly, but there may be people OUTSIDE this organization who might want to know about this, especially if their pledge program violates any campus/state anti-hazing laws.

[TSteven]

Whittier College
Student Handbook
Academic Year
2004-2005

CODE OF STUDENTS’ RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES

C. COLLEGE REGULATIONS

Whittier College has established only those regulations that are considered necessary to preserve and maintain an environment conducive to learning, to ensure the safety and welfare of members of the College community, to encourage students in the development and practice of good citizenship and self-discipline, and to protect the property and equipment of the College.

The following conduct is prohibited:

13. Hazing

Violation of Sections 32050 and 32051 of the California Education Code and Whittier College policy. The text of these sections is reprinted here.

Section 32051. Hazing Prohibited. No student, or other person in attendance at any public, private, parochial or military school, community college, college, university, or other educational institution, shall conspire to engage in hazing, participate in hazing, or commit any act that causes or is likely to cause bodily danger, physical harm, or personal degradation or disgrace resulting in physical or mental harm to any fellow student or person attending the institution. The violation of this section is a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars ($100) nor more than five thousand dollars ($5000) and imprisonment in the county jail for more than one year, or both.

Section 32050. “Hazing” Defined. Hazing includes any method of initiation or pre-initiation into a student organization or any pastime or amusement engaged in with respect to such an organization which causes, or is likely to cause, bodily danger, physical harm, or personal degradation or disgrace resulting in physical or mental harm to any student, to another person attending any school, community college, college, university, or other educational institution in this state.

Penalties for Hazing. Any person who participates in the hazing of another, or any corporation or association which knowingly permits hazing to be conducted by its members or by others subject to its discretion or control, shall forfeit any entitlement to state funds, scholarships or awards which are enjoyed by him, by her, or by it and shall be deprived of any sanction or approval granted by any public educational institution or agency.

From the Fraternity Insurance Purchasing Group (FIPG) Risk Management manual: Hazing activities are defined as: Any action taken or situation created, intentionally, whether on or off fraternity premises, to produce mental or physical discomfort, embarrassment, harassment, or ridicule.

Such activities may include but are not limited to the following:

• Use of alcohol
• Paddling in any form
• Creation of excessive fatigue
• Physical and psychological shocks
• Quests
• Treasure hunts
• Scavenger hunts
• Road trips or any other such activities carried on outside or inside of the confines of the chapter house
• Wearing of public apparel which is conspicuous and not normally in good taste
• Engaging in public stunts and buffoonery
• Morally degrading or humiliating games and activities
• And any other such activities that are not consistent with fraternal law, ritual or policy, or the regulation and policies of the educational institution.

[Little E]

Did the hazing legislation that was in front of congress go through? It was like a year ago, the thread never said what the outcome was. I'mjust curious.

[Tom Earp]

TS, thanks for the info.

Now, I am still wondering if this HornyToad is a member of a Real Greek National Organization, a local HS or just a College Group who professes to be a Greek Organization?

While all Greek Organizations have certain ways to call their New Associates, Pledges or what ever, this makes my head swim trying to figure out what I would be considered for position of said Group!

Damn, does this Pledge Ship run as long as the war of the roses?

[DeltAlum]

Two questions, Sir Toad:

1) Does it tell you anything when an entire class depledges?

2) Do you understand that no matter what your opinion, what you are doing appears to be hazing and thus illegal and against the rules of your college?

[kddani]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Two questions, Sir Toad:

1) Does it tell you anything when an entire class depledges?

2) Do you understand that no matter what your opinion, what you are doing appears to be hazing and thus illegal and against the rules of your college?

Amen and amen.

SirHornyToad- your chapter has some issues, obviously. Maybe it's time for things to change into a more positive environment.

Never understood how someone could want to be friends with someone who treats them like shit... as your group treats it's new members, with this superiority ranking. It's kind of like a person stuck in an abusive relationship, to me.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Two questions, Sir Toad:

1) Does it tell you anything when an entire class depledges?

2) Do you understand that no matter what your opinion, what you are doing appears to be hazing and thus illegal and against the rules of your college?

How is what he's doing illegal?

And many fraternities may not want to be large or take in a large class. Heck the class may have depledged for another reason.

On the other hand, SirHornyToad, you shouldn't think that having your squires and maidens bring you drinks is teaching them anything other than being subservient (not your equal, not your brother).

-Rudey

[ZetaGirl22]

*totally off topic*
Phoenix-
Vampire: The Masquerade?!?!?! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!
tabletop or live action?

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Rudey
How is what he's doing illegal?

Well, it would appear he is hazing which is illegal under California law.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Well, it would appear he is hazing which is illegal under California law.

You know you're not going to change him or his society and he knows the Delts will operate differently from his society.

I think he knows the attitudes out there already. What more is there to say?

I'm just trying to make everyone happy.

-Rudey

[AGDee]

What becomes frustrating is that, whether a society/fraternity/sorority is local, national or regional, when a chapter is hazing, it ends up reflecting badly on all of us. If we don't stand up against it, whether we successfully change someone's mind or not, it is the same as condoning it.