subtle hazing
 

at this point, I'm a little afraid of them so I'm removing my post.

Thanks for the pm's and letting me know a few different viewpoints. I think I'm going to depledge but I'm too afraid of them to talk to any higher-ups about it. Three of my pledge sisters have already left.

I may be in the minority here, or maybe not, but w/o giving specific examples of what you are being made to do, well I can't really say IMO "yes, its hazing", or "no, its not"

either way, did you really expect a pledging process to be walk in the park.

I dont consider things like quizzes, line ups, having to learn information, wearing a pledge pin, etc hazing. but there is that thin line of course when quizzes and learning information can cross the line into hazing if you are being made to learn random information that is not going to be in your final exam or being treated like the personal slave of a member.

but again, w/o details, its an iffy situation. and then again, not being NPC, things that we do in our process would be considered outright hazing by other orgs (even though our National Board (which I sit on) does not consider it hazing).

A lot must be what you consider hazing.

If it is stress full to you, then it is.

But again, We do not know what you are made to do and dont really want to know. That is between you and your prospective group.

If you are made to learn certain things about the group, learn them.

If you are to stressed out, then get out only after you talk with you big or a member of the Officer Cadray.

If it is just making you try to learn, conform, or what ever, then do it if you feel comfortable with this group. If not then de associate.

You must have felt something to have joined them in the first place!

Now, i would consider this hazing, but that is the different from NPC.

To the original question, you and you alone can determine what you feel is hazing. not to say that hazing can be subjective, but if you are reguired to do things that make you uncomfortable then to you it is hazing. I don't think that you owe anyone an explaination. If i were you, i would just leave. If i was asked why then i would give an explaination, but you should not feel obligated to give one. Also, i would write out a letter and send it to the national organization (if there is one) or the greek counsil at your school. Some one has to be in charge say a school administrator. I would tell them the simple facts. As clear and unemotional as possible. Right out how you see this non hazing policy consisting of hazing and how you feel that these actions should not occur and can be construde as hazing. Now, i know that i just said unemotional and then stated to include how you feel. I just want to be clear. You can express you feelings without including your emotions. Think of it like feeling out a police report. You need to include the facts,without biase.

Good luck,
debbie

No organization should ever be a reason why your grades are slipping. If they are, then they're not a positive part of your life.

Before I joined AGD, I pledged a local that made their pledges do many of the things you mentioned. I knew these were good girls aside from the fact, and the reason why I pledged in the first place was because I was comfortable with them outside of the whole sorority thing.

During pledge period I became uncomfortable with the things they wanted us to do and I questioned whether or not I wanted to be a part of it because going along with it would be going against something I didn't really believe in.

Keep in mind that this was before GC...before I learned about different types of hazing...before I joined AGD so I didn't know about what the NPC's standards and things like that. When I approached the sisters of the local about my concerns, they knew it was hazing. They just did it because of "tradition".

You will get thousands of NPC women here on GC who will say that they things you mentioned are forms of hazing because..well, that's what we've been taught. Then you'll get members of other orgs who will say otherwise because they probably went through that stuff too -- and they got through it. That's their thing.

What's most important is where YOU draw the line. You've already established the fact that you don't agree with these things, so I think you're making a great decision. Don't let others tell you otherwise.

I don't know how your campus admin is like, so I can't tell you what to do as far as reporting them. I can tell you from my experience that I fully regret not going to the Director of RIOs...only because seeing them continue this BS has done nothing but give the Greeks on my campus a bad name.

Dude, why are you always trying to make your fraternity look so bad ass? Does it get you respect from anyone in real life? It sure gets you less respect around here and you look like a tool.

Unsure05, check your PM...

It doesn't really matter what you do or don't consider hazing. It's what the laws of any given state or rules of any university say that count -- whether you agree or not.

Do you joust? Do you have initiation at the Bristol Ren Faire?

Anyway, to the first poster - if it is stuff you aren't comfortable with and you can't see a clear purpose for doing it, I would talk to your pledgemaster/dean of intake/whatever her title is and tell her that you're unhappy, you personally feel like this is hazing, and you're unsure if you want to go through with the process.

It's the medieval times of fraternities! Totally reminds me of the Carnegie Mellon nerds that I would see dressed up in medieval costumes doing fake sword fighting and jousting over in the park that separates our campuses. Wow, those people were just SO cool

:rolleyes:

Hijack.

Having little to do with anything, I believe it is still true that only one state has a truly official State Sport. The state is Maryland and the sport is Ring Jousting.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled side show.

Extended hijack.

Texas' State Sport is the Rodeo --- no joke! it was a House Resolution in 1997 :) And our dance is the square dance so you know we are cool.....

I laughed when he called y'all pussies.

I laughed when you guys asked if he jousted.

I laughed when I learned the official sport of Maryland.

-Rudey

Actually, there are many fraternities that have different titles for their members besides "initiates" and "pledges". Many are national fraternities. Let's not bag on him for that. There are other things...

I really don't get into lecturing individuals from small local fraternities. I seem to recall him saying they had around 6 members or so.. (maybe I'm wrong?).

Whether 6 guys want to have "tradition", make younger guys get them drinks and stuff like that or not is really nothing I'm going to ever worry about. Horny, your group is called the "Lancers" or something like that, right? It doesn't even take on a Greek name..

If it's illegal where you're at, it's on you and your alums if something should go wrong.. You obviously know that, and are continuing to do it. I could care less whether you get caught or not. Whether you do or not will make no difference in all likelihood to anyone not associated with your group. Best of luck doing what y'all do.