Bush Wants to Cut Student Loan Program

[James]

If you can't hold us accountable for it then we didn't violate shit.

Thats the whole point of being a nation-state and having a military

As far as being lied to etc . .. . well most people know it, but it dosn't much affect the average citizen . . . . so who cares? Its mostly just a bunch of dead foreigners.

Originally posted by RACooper
Oh... I don't know the fact that one it violated the principle of pre-emptive war that the US signed on to.. or that it was declared illegal by the UN... or that the premise of WMD was pretty much a fabrication to justify war... or that Bush VIOLATED US AND INTERNATIONAL LAW! WTF is the deal with people in the US not realizeing that they were lied to, duped, and had their laws and rights violated by that jackass Bush?!?!?

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by Rudey
Listen you can't pass opinion off as fact. Is it also your opinion that pigs can fly? Really? Oh great. We all live in fairy tale land. And what does a "free country" have to do with anything?!?

And no you don't understand how the loans work. Most people that receive them don't. If you do, please tell me how different types of loans cost the government money and it's actually exploiting a loophole. But I'm sure since you know all about the loopholes you'd be willing to tell us what's going on.

Next time you think you're right, please, actually be right. I'm too old to be cutting people down for stupid things they say.

-Rudey

So what makes your OPINION right?

Nothing

How would you know what I do and do not know? There's no way you can possibly know that.

Next time you think your opinion is superior, please step back from the keyboard, because you're too old to make yourself look like an ass.

[Betarulz!]

This is one, out of many, examples of why I so dislike the Bush Administration...

They'll tout this around, saying that they helped numerous students get to college who otherwise couldn't by upping the amount given out in grants. Great, I'm all for that, I'm definitely in support of increasing the amount of grants available.

But in order to do this they cut loans, leaving a significant number of students unable to pay for college or graduate school. Obviously a bad thing. And so much for helping middle class Americans deal with the rising costs of tuition...this just doesn't make sense.

I don't think that simply switching around who gets the money helps the collective at all. It's seriously just a one in/one out type of deal.

[AchtungBaby80]

Originally posted by RACooper
Oh... I don't know the fact that one it violated the principle of pre-emptive war that the US signed on to.. or that it was declared illegal by the UN... or that the premise of WMD was pretty much a fabrication to justify war... or that Bush VIOLATED US AND INTERNATIONAL LAW! WTF is the deal with people in the US not realizeing that they were lied to, duped, and had their laws and rights violated by that jackass Bush?!?!?

I wish I could somehow condense this and put it on a t-shirt. I love it!

Oh, well. I guess I'll just have to settle for my "My Bush Would Make A Better President" shirt.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by texas*princess
So what makes your OPINION right?

Nothing

How would you know what I do and do not know? There's no way you can possibly know that.

Next time you think your opinion is superior, please step back from the keyboard, because you're too old to make yourself look like an ass.

Actually, what opinion did I have? There is a difference between fact and opinion, but you're too ignorant to know what it is.

-Rudey
--Now go watch those flying pigs

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Betarulz!
This is one, out of many, examples of why I so dislike the Bush Administration...

They'll tout this around, saying that they helped numerous students get to college who otherwise couldn't by upping the amount given out in grants. Great, I'm all for that, I'm definitely in support of increasing the amount of grants available.

But in order to do this they cut loans, leaving a significant number of students unable to pay for college or graduate school. Obviously a bad thing. And so much for helping middle class Americans deal with the rising costs of tuition...this just doesn't make sense.

I don't think that simply switching around who gets the money helps the collective at all. It's seriously just a one in/one out type of deal.

Again, the loan business is not some great good in this country. At least read into the problems of the different types of student loans out there before you go out saying "this just doesn't make sense."

-Rudey

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by Rudey
Actually, what opinion did I have? There is a difference between fact and opinion, but you're too ignorant to know what it is.

-Rudey
--Now go watch those flying pigs

It was my opinion that Bush could have saved a couple billion by not taking us to war... since saving money was the basis for his loan cutting, that's the only reason I posted that.

It's pretty apparent you're not agreeing here, which is fine, but you don't have to "cut anyone down" because you don't agree. I never once said my OPINION was the "right" one. I never said my opinion was a fact. All I said was that it was my opinion.

Like I said before, please read first. Thanks.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Betarulz!
They'll tout this around, saying that they helped numerous students get to college who otherwise couldn't by upping the amount given out in grants. Great, I'm all for that, I'm definitely in support of increasing the amount of grants available.

But in order to do this they cut loans, leaving a significant number of students unable to pay for college or graduate school. Obviously a bad thing. And so much for helping middle class Americans deal with the rising costs of tuition...this just doesn't make sense.

This is simply a narrow viewpoint. Increasing grants does exactly what the student loan program was intended to do - allow the underprivileged the opportunity to attend college at a reduced cost - and it does this better than loans. Up to this point, loan programs have been fleecing the government, all the while allowing people to write off the interest.

Also - it's not like loans will suddenly disappear. Many, many competitive loan programs can be found through private banking, and maybe eliminating the government fat from these programs will lead to positive competition. It's certainly worth exploring, considering the extreme waste in these programs currently.

Originally posted by Betarulz!
I don't think that simply switching around who gets the money helps the collective at all. It's seriously just a one in/one out type of deal.

Using this logic, it also doesn't hurt the collective, no? And if the net result is increased efficiency, then you've helped the collective indirectly.

Let's not even stray into the 'how many people actually need loan programs, and would benefit from paying directly?' argument . . .

[Rudey]

Originally posted by texas*princess
It was my opinion that Bush could have saved a couple billion by not taking us to war... since saving money was the basis for his loan cutting, that's the only reason I posted that.

It's pretty apparent you're not agreeing here, which is fine, but you don't have to "cut anyone down" because you don't agree. I never once said my OPINION was the "right" one. I never said my opinion was a fact. All I said was that it was my opinion.

Like I said before, please read first. Thanks.

Again, it was not Bush's decision alone to go to war.

Again, this is not a "fake" war.

Again, these loan programs are flawed and aren't simply about spending on something.

It's pretty apparent you are passing off opinion as fact and if you want to save face, I would keep quiet now.

-Rudey

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by Rudey
Again, it was not Bush's decision alone to go to war.

Again, this is not a "fake" war.

Again, these loan programs are flawed and aren't simply about spending on something.

It's pretty apparent you are passing off opinion as fact and if you want to save face, I would keep quiet now.

-Rudey

look, those are my opinions. i am not trying to pass anything off as fact.. i'm just saying that's how i THINK they are.

i never said loan programs are super great and perfect in every way.

and everyone has their OWN OPINION on the war.. that just happens to be mine.

if i have to CAPS all the opinionated words I will.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by texas*princess
look, those are my opinions. i am not trying to pass anything off as fact.. i'm just saying that's how i THINK they are.

i never said loan programs are super great and perfect in every way.

and everyone has their OWN OPINION on the war.. that just happens to be mine.

if i have to CAPS all the opinionated words I will.

Right and some people have an opinion that pigs can fly. It's OK. We get it.

-Rudey

[KSigkid]

I'll admit, my first reflex wasn't positive, as it was largely because of student loans that I was able to afford college.

Honestly though, after reading the article and reading Rudey's post, it doesn't seem like we're talking about the end of the world here as far as help for college. It would be great to have more grants and more alternatives when looking for ways to pay for school.

If these loan companies are just taking advantage of the situation, why not search for alternatives. As was said, it's not like the government is going to leave all of these students and prospective students with no way to go to college.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by KSigkid
I'll admit, my first reflex wasn't positive, as it was largely because of student loans that I was able to afford college.

Honestly though, after reading the article and reading Rudey's post, it doesn't seem like we're talking about the end of the world here as far as help for college. It would be great to have more grants and more alternatives when looking for ways to pay for school.

If these loan companies are just taking advantage of the situation, why not search for alternatives. As was said, it's not like the government is going to leave all of these students and prospective students with no way to go to college.

Although I agree with most of your post and thanks Rudey for an explanation of what is going on, I don't know you guys...

Something's fishy...

The big corporate banking clan is fleecing Academia that is meant to help many a student to enter a college somewhere, somehow...

But, I see percentages of young people with bad credit and huge credit debt after undergraduate college that only a DiTech loan may be able to squeeze them out of 10 years from now with a higher percentage rate and some kid's first born...

I know there are NUMEROUS WAYS to finance college... But you as well as I know that most young people don't have the fiscal intelligence of a mortgage actuarial scientist to work out how this financing will occur... Otherwise, why do chickadees strip at the local strip club for college? I know, that's bogus, but hey, that's what kids think they have to do for the name of "free education"... Or at least an education to enable them to pursue a higher paying job... If that...

I myself was fortunate not to have to take out ANY loans... They ALL seems fishy to me... Yeah, I had credit card debt that was in the thousands with a poor interest rate, but there was no defaulting on minimum payments and the thought of renegotiating never was taught to me...

Later in life, I have found some more loophole for financing... But, that in and of itself is risky...

Also, Rudey, you post is still a "columnist" in the Washington Post... That makes it an opinion... How well will facts be checked with her assertions?

But I do agree with you, the Dept. of Ed. does need to be fiscally overhauled... But that would just kill No Child Left Behind and Headstart programs...

[Rudey]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
Also, Rudey, you post is still a "columnist" in the Washington Post... That makes it an opinion... How well will facts be checked with her assertions?

But I do agree with you, the Dept. of Ed. does need to be fiscally overhauled... But that would just kill No Child Left Behind and Headstart programs...

Do a search on the internet for it Monet if you don't believe me. It is an op-ed written about how loan providers are fleecing the government, which is a fact.

This has been known for a long time.

I'm not saying that anyone is doing this solely to clean up the student loan business.

But I am saying that you can't just say there is good here and bad there with this issue. I don't think anyone just wakes up and says "I want to screw over some kids and make sure they get no loans for school."

Greed is the best known thing about our world. You can depend on it so much that our government set up a system of checks and balances. These banks will not only line the pockets of politicians but also push their message in the media. I'm sure you know how they operate in big pharma; this is similar.

-Rudey

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by Rudey
Do a search on the internet for it Monet if you don't believe me. It is an op-ed written about how loan providers are fleecing the government, which is a fact.

This has been known for a long time.

As much as I dislike it as a newspaper, there was a pretty good article about the student loan industry in the Village Voice.

I'd rather have student loan debt than credit card debt, but maybe that's just me...