Inside School Number One: the full horror of Russia's 9/11

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
Please provide a link. I'd like to read about this.

Here is an excellent book about the chechan conflict:

The Chechen Wars: Will Russia Go the Way of the Soviet Union? by Matthew Evangelista

Some articles, sorry no link:

Exploitation of the 'Islamic Factor' in the Russo-Chechen Conflict Before and After 11 September 2001. By: Russell, John. European Security, Winter2002, Vol. 11 Issue 4, p96

The Russian army in Chechnya. By: Felgenhauer, Pavel. Central Asian Survey, Jun2002, Vol. 21 Issue 2, p157

The Chechen Exception: Rethinking Russia’s Human Rights Policy. By: Heinze, Eric A.; Borer, Douglas A.. Politics, May2002, Vol. 22 Issue 2, p86

International Law, Human Rights and the Wars in Chechnya. By: Faurby, Ib. Baltic Defence Review, Jan2002, Vol. 7 Issue 1, p103

Justifying Forceful Resistance to Ethnic Separatism: The Case of Russia versus Chechnya, 1994-96. By: Shulman, Stephen. European Security, Spring2001, Vol. 10 Issue 1, p107

The prospects for genocide in Chechnya and extremist retaliation against the West. Central Asian Survey; Sep2000, Vol. 19 Issue 3/4, p315

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by moe.ron
it is about sheer incomeptency and lack of discipline of the once glorious Russian military.

To say nothing of the Police. Did you see the video of relatives, etc. wandering through the school? A British TV crew actually got up to the building and took a shot inside the gym while the operation was still going on.

Not going to be much forensic investigation going on at that crime scene after it's been contaminated by the entire town wandering through it.

[Rudey]

I believe each family should be held accountable for any terrorists that hide in their house. If terrorists knew the price of terrorism would go up and that their families would be arrested or executed, I bet terrorism would stop. A few extra people may die in the beginning but I bet in the end, less people would die.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
I believe each family should be held accountable for any terrorists that hide in their house. If terrorists knew the price of terrorism would go up and that their families would be arrested or executed, I bet terrorism would stop. A few extra people may die in the beginning but I bet in the end, less people would die.

-Rudey

Interesting... that's exactly the method used in Chechnya during the winter operations that moe.ron mentioned... if a house or family ever sheltered a terrorist, raze it and the neighbooring houses to the ground... and hey why not shoot out of hand the first son of the "guilty" family" for good messure.

The actions taken by the newly constituted "Cossack" Unit resposible for "pacifing" the region were so appauling that other Russian units refused to serve with them, and asked that the unit be disbanded... finally when the Spentanz complained about the brutality of the Cossack unit (campared them to SS Commando's), the unit was finally disbanded, after 2 months "on the line". Seems the other units felt that the actions of a few brutal men, where creating more enemies than they killed or "pacified". Collective and arbitrary punishments against a population does not work...

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
Interesting... that's exactly the method used in Chechnya during the winter operations that moe.ron mentioned... if a house or family ever sheltered a terrorist, raze it and the neighbooring houses to the ground... and hey why not shoot out of hand the first son of the "guilty" family" for good messure.

The actions taken by the newly constituted "Cossack" Unit resposible for "pacifing" the region were so appauling that other Russian units refused to serve with them, and asked that the unit be disbanded... finally when the Spentanz complained about the brutality of the Cossack unit (campared them to SS Commando's), the unit was finally disbanded, after 2 months "on the line". Seems the other units felt that the actions of a few brutal men, where creating more enemies than they killed or "pacified". Collective and arbitrary punishments against a population does not work...

They bare responsibility for raising and harboring terrorists. You're trying to meld and mold the facts here. There is a difference between random acts of violence and other targeted acts.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
They bare responsibility for raising and harboring terrorists. You're trying to meld and mold the facts here. There is a difference between random acts of violence and other targeted acts.

-Rudey

I don't believe I'm trying to mold or meld facts... the brutality of both sides simply adds more fuel to the fire.

Suffice to say I find your advocation of the use of terror irresponsible and hipocrytical... Terror used as a weapon is "evil" and wrong; no matter who wields it, the state or the rebels, the victims will label them terrorists.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
I don't believe I'm trying to mold or meld facts... the brutality of both sides simply adds more fuel to the fire.

Suffice to say I find your advocation of the use of terror irresponsible and hipocrytical... Terror used as a weapon is "evil" and wrong; no matter who wields it, the state or the rebels, the victims will label them terrorists.

I don't advocate terror. I am in search of peace and I am not afraid to see reality on the ground instead of fake ideals.

-Rudey

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
To say nothing of the Police. Did you see the video of relatives, etc. wandering through the school? A British TV crew actually got up to the building and took a shot inside the gym while the operation was still going on.

Not going to be much forensic investigation going on at that crime scene after it's been contaminated by the entire town wandering through it.

There was also the case for the Moscow theatre situation. Did you know that two civilians just walked into the front of the door and went into the situation. They were not stop once by the police or the military as they walked into the building. Both were killed when they entered. You have to wonder who is running the police and the military.

[_Opi_]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss

At least the reaction in the Muslim world is one of horror and condemnation. I think that they are beginning wake up and see that most current terrorism is being committed by people in the name of Islam.

We were awake a long time ago. But we just haven't been getting the airtime, if you know what I mean.


And PM Mama, and what's wrong with the area that you go to school?

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by _Opi_
We were awake a long time ago. But we just haven't been getting the airtime, if you know what I mean.

If that's true, its not just American media that has been depriving rational Muslims of airtime. Its also the state controlled media in the Arabian world, as well as newer private outlets like Al Jazeera.

[_Opi_]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
If that's true, its not just American media that has been depriving rational Muslims of airtime. Its also the state controlled media in the Arabian world, as well as newer private outlets like Al Jazeera.

Most of the muslim world is non-Arab.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by _Opi_
Most of the muslim world is non-Arab.

Most (if not all) international Muslim-oriented media is Arabian.

[_Opi_]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
Most (if not all) international Muslim-oriented media is Arabian.

Yeah, but I fail to see how Arabian news represents us muslims in other parts of the world...especially in North America.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by _Opi_
Yeah, but I fail to see how Arabian news represents us muslims in other parts of the world...especially in North America.

The strategic issue in the War on Terror is the nations that are economically disconnected from the rest of the world. There is virtually no direct foreign investment in these nations, and oil really doesn't count. Which nations are they? Its Arabs. How is radical disent manifested in these nations? In the name of Islam. Where do they get their popular support? From Muslims, especially through Arabian media outlets. Terrorism always relies on PR, and moderate Muslims have remained relatively silent. They are under attack as much as anyone else.

How will this be resolved? By direct foreign investement so that these nations can be integrated into the modern world. When will this happen? When its safe for foreign investment in these nations. When will it be safe? When foreign nationals are no longer kidnapped and capital is not blown up. Also when there is an educated population that can both participate in the global economy, as well as fight Islamic radicals.

A weapon against Modernity is Arab media, and it is Islamic in conotation. Non-Arab muslims are not really challanging this, so Arabian news represents Muslims by default. Because of all of this, it is very relevant in North America.

[Rudey]

I hear those African/Arab/Muslim countries are great places to live. Is anyone vacationing in Sudan soon?

-Rudey