B.E.T.'s Comments on President Reagan - Page 2

AKA2D '91 · #16 06-08-2004, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pike1483
I'd also like to note that Reagan was instrumental in the careers of Colin Powell and Dr. Condoleezza Rice, as well as many other black leaders.

As far as Condi is concerned, I thought SHE was responsible for her career. I guess good ole Mr. President helped her to get that doctorate and her interest in foreign affairs.

Really? I've been watching the various aspects of his legacy on the various cable news shows. I must have missed it when they revealed this information. CNN's Anderson Report accounted his relationship with minorities. This is what the show revealed...

...of 365 judges he appointed during his tenure only 7 were minorities. Then, the ONLY Black person he appointed to his cabinet was the Secretary of HUD.

msn4med1975 · #17 06-08-2004, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
So, if you wouldn't mind.. please do tell.. who would you call "black leaders"?

I don't know. For anyone to proclaim them as a "leader" of people of their race is a little presumptuous. Perhaps calling them a purveyor and spokesperson for a certain group of people with a certain point of view -- or even a "leader" of a certain movement (because to be part of the movement implies acceptance of the movement's goals). But it just doesn't sit right with me to have someone called a white, black or purple leader.

I don't think President Reagan was ever referred to as a "white" leader.

As someone already MENTIONED I was replying to Pike's comments. But since you asked there have always been designations when it came to prominent Blacks (ie Malcolm X and MLK Jr. or Medgar Evars) who were thusly labeled Black LEADERS. You don't have to make a distinction with any group and personally the media's appointments of late have been sorely lacking. There are NO BLACK LEADERS right now. We have people who would like to lead the race but they have their own agenda and that is not consistent with most of Black America (just like Colin and Condi).

Rudey · #18 06-08-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
...of 365 judges he appointed during his tenure only 7 were minorities. Then, the ONLY Black person he appointed to his cabinet was the Secretary of HUD.

How big was the pool of blacks to choose from? Were the cabinets before that full of blacks?

-Rudey

msn4med1975 · #19 06-08-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by madmax
Al Sharpton.

You have got to be joking.

msn4med1975 · #20 06-08-2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taualumna
I could never understand why people say that minority leaders have to represent minority issues. I thought that it was good enough just to get an ethnic minority or a woman (of any race) representing you in politics. I mean, should a pro-life female politician be seen as negative just because she doesn't believe in abortion? Or what about hispanic or Asian politicians who are not pro-ethnic languages but for the improving of access to English language classes for immigrants (left wing support groups seem to be for ethnic language labels and signs in the respective communities)? Are these peoplegood representatives/role models for their respective communities or are they not?

Actually that is the point. Just because they are minority and in office doesn't mean they represent OTHER minorities. They represent themselves and those that SHARE their views. Condi, Colon, Al, Jesse don't represent the reality for Black America. As as a result they wouldn't be considered leaders for THOSE people. But actually why would you be happy just because a woman was in office if she didn't do anything to support women's causes? Just saying we are there isn't something to just jump for joy about. Especially if they are actively working to undo any gains women or minorities have made.

KellyB369 · #21 06-08-2004, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taualumna
I could never understand why people say that minority leaders have to represent minority issues. I thought that it was good enough just to get an ethnic minority or a woman (of any race) representing you in politics. I mean, should a pro-life female politician be seen as negative just because she doesn't believe in abortion? Or what about hispanic or Asian politicians who are not pro-ethnic languages but for the improving of access to English language classes for immigrants (left wing support groups seem to be for ethnic language labels and signs in the respective communities)? Are these peoplegood representatives/role models for their respective communities or are they not?

I agree with this. I don't understand why you cannot consider them a "black leader" just because they do not share your views. Are they not black and do they not lead? I know you mentioned Malcom X, etc and I see what you mean there about "black leaders" but I think it is unfair to Powell, Rice, etc that most of their own race will not even claim them because of their views.

Edited to change do to do not. Sorry!

msn4med1975 · #22 06-08-2004, 01:44 PM

Do you claim all elected officials that happen to be of your racial background? If so, bully for you but I only support individuals OF ANY RACIAL BACKGROUND that are fighting for the same causes I am. It doesn't make sense to support anyone just because they look like you.

EDITED TO ADD: Do I respect what Colin and Condi have achieved? Yes, I think they are working very hard against some difficult circumstances in this adminstration. Does that mean I support them as leades of a race whose ideals and values they personal and political choices do not align with? Heck no and I shouldn't be expected to. No one was running around saying the country had to support Clinton when he was going through his trials and tribulations, as a matter of fact most of the individuals I know were ready to string the man up for "tampering with the moral fiber of the country." I have yet to figure out why folks assume minorities should just do a dance of joy when any old minority is elevated to status in this country.

AKA2D '91 · #23 06-08-2004, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
How big was the pool of blacks to choose from? Were the cabinets before that full of blacks?

-Rudey

Question 1: The report did not give that information. There are many AA and other minority judges out there. The question is was their ideology like that of the President? or did he care not to appoint them even if they shared the same ideology? If the latter is the case, why not? was it not popular at the time?

Question 2: You tell me. I'm speaking about Reagan and the all of the 'black" leaders and their careers he's supposedly responsible for (that someone mentioned in this thread).

It wasn't until Clinton's tenure that MORE minorities were appointed to cabinet-level positions.

Obiviously, his lack of inclusiveness is apparent. If it were not apparent, this discussion and many discussions like this would not take place as his legacy is being reviewed and discussed.

sugar and spice · #24 06-08-2004, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KellyB369
I agree with this. I don't understand why you cannot consider them a "black leader" just because they do share your views. Are they not black and do they not lead? I know you mentioned Malcom X, etc and I see what you mean there about "black leaders" but I think it is unfair to Powell, Rice, etc that most of their own race will not even claim them because of their views.

It's not like they're denying that Colin & Condi, et al, are black . . . they're simply saying that C&C don't represent them. If there's a woman politician who is pro-life, I certainly don't deny that she's female . . . but I also don't think that she represents my views in any way.

33girl · #25 06-08-2004, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by msn4med1975
Do you claim all elected officials that happen to be of your racial background? If so, bully for you but I only support individuals OF ANY RACIAL BACKGROUND that are fighting for the same causes I am. It doesn't make sense to support anyone just because they look like you.

It's usually whites in the media who say someone is a "black leader." It kind of reminds me of when Kurt Cobain was christened "the spokesman for his generation" by baby boomers when the generation he was actually in (that includes me) was, for the most part, extremely offended by such an assertion.

AKA2D '91 · #26 06-08-2004, 01:54 PM

What we have to remember is that he was true to his convictions. If he chose to handle things the way he did... IT'S OKAY!

IT'S OKAY that he was against the MLK holiday (documented). I am against the report that someone wants his face on Mt. Rushmore. So?
IT'S OKAY that he only appointed one black person to his cabinet.
IT'S OKAY that he had his ideology and beliefs.
IT'S OKAY that he and his kids had problems, but later reconciled.

I am OKAY with what he did or did not do. I did not like some of the things he did. During his tenure I was what 8-16. I didn't understand much, but I was not totally ignorant to what was going on...

Everyone, IT'S OKAY. Just recognized that he was who he was ( to you).

IT'S OKAY!

Reds6 · #27 06-08-2004, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KellyB369
I agree with this. I don't understand why you cannot consider them a "black leader" just because they do share your views. Are they not black and do they not lead? I know you mentioned Malcom X, etc and I see what you mean there about "black leaders" but I think it is unfair to Powell, Rice, etc that most of their own race will not even claim them because of their views.

I have great respect for both Powell and Rice. Blacks are just as entitled to have different political views as any other group.

Reds6 · #28 06-08-2004, 02:04 PM

Can I get a show of hands of those that actually remember his presidency and not what you studied in school. I think I'm older than a lot of people on this board and when he took office I was in elementary school.

KellyB369 · #29 06-08-2004, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by msn4med1975
Do you claim all elected officials that happen to be of your racial background? If so, bully for you but I only support individuals OF ANY RACIAL BACKGROUND that are fighting for the same causes I am. It doesn't make sense to support anyone just because they look like you.

I do not call anyone a white leader so I can't relate to what is being said about black leaders. I understand that you would not support someone just because they are the same race as you, but I don't understand why so many black people say there are not enough blacks in leadership roles but then the blacks who are leaders don't really seem to count because of their views. If we had a black president who was a staunch Republican and did not support the so-called black issues would your race not be glad that a black person was finally elected to such a high honor? Maybe you wouldn't be because you say that racial background doesn't matter but I think that people who just want blacks to have more leadership in this country should be happy with that regardless of their views. I HATE Hillary but if she was elected Pres I would at least think it was a positive step for women.

msn4med1975 · #30 06-08-2004, 02:08 PM

I was in elementary school at the time as well. Do I remember him getting shot? Not so much. Do I remember the whole trickle down economics mess or war on drugs or Iran-Contra scandal? Yep sure do which is why, I respect his death and some of the things he did while in office, but I won't be lobbying to get our money changed, his face put on Mt. Rushmore or anything else.