Debating Idiot Greek Logic

[Rudey]

Originally posted by AXID455
I have well above a 2.5, I am on the Deans List, and am on the executive board. I am not promoting partying in any way. Our sisters are not suffering from bad grades because of partying. As on my first post I said "In fact an area facilitator just told our chapter that we arent having ENOUGH fun! We are too concerned with programs, volunteering, and being active in school we forgot about the social part! We learned we shouldnt have to miss out on fun just to impress everyone and dispel every stereotype." Our sisters haven't been able to get good grades because we have so many activities and things to do trying to be the best on campus that there is little time for anything else, even fun (which does not mean partying).

The point of my post was to say that one of us represents all of us. And if one person does something wrong, others generalize that all greeks act the same way. Just because some greeks act like idiots and dont know how to act mature and responsible when drinking doesnt mean that all greeks act like that. Its just one or two people who make a show of themselves and then everyone thinks all greeks act like this. This is why we need to be very careful when recruiting.

Listen at the end of the day it's about results. If your chapter has good grades, is big, does volunteer, and parties like none-other it's fine. Do whatever you want. I won't comment on what your area facilitator says or does because I don't know her, the situation, and don't care enough to speak for your organization.

People don't act out as individuals. The guys that drink, drink in a group. The guys that haze, haze in a group. If you don't care about what others do because it's only "individuals", then don't care about us "individuals" that care and want to lower our risk.

-Rudey

[AXID455]

Originally posted by Rudey
Listen at the end of the day it's about results. If your chapter has good grades, is big, does volunteer, and parties like none-other it's fine. Do whatever you want. I won't comment on what your area facilitator says or does because I don't know her, the situation, and don't care enough to speak for your organization.

People don't act out as individuals. The guys that drink, drink in a group. The guys that haze, haze in a group. If you don't care about what others do because it's only "individuals", then don't care about us "individuals" that care and want to lower our risk.

-Rudey

Our area facilitator was talking about not being all work and no play, which is most likely the cause of our decreased alumni involvement. People are getting burnt out from trying so hard to create this image of greeks as incredible multitaskers who can have the best grades, volunteer portfolio, programs, raise the most money, etc. We are trying so hard to lose the stereotype that we are losing the fun (which DOESNT mean parties) that Greek orgs are also about. No one wants to be part of an organization that doesnt have time to hang out with their friends or cant hold a part time job because your life is all consumed by trying to impress people. What do we really get by trying to impress everyone? We just need to slow it down, stick to our ideals, and not worry about the :results or numbers. Its quality of what we do anyway, not quantity.

I also think there is a big difference between sororities and fraternities, or at least on my campus. Fraternities break all the hazing and drinking rules out in the open and frankly no one really cares or gets in trouble. The stereotype of a fraternity guy rings so true. But the sororities on campus are different and are very cautious about what they do, our Panhellenic board definitely has disciplined chapters that were in question about doing something, although there was not even evidence.

I think we are not understanding each others points of views because i have only seen what has gone on at my own campus.

[DeltAlum]

Having been a division officer, I have seen first hand much of what the article spotlights.

I think it is important.

Important enough that I copied it into the Risk Management forum in its entirity.

Unfortunately, I also think that most of it is absolutely true. Some Greeks do dumb things, and then whine when they get caught.

Read the threads in Risk Management.

[shadokat]

Great article, and true on so many levels. Most of us just don't want to admit it. Co-sign to Rudey...this could be a first!

[James]

I think you are being full of it lol . . . if you want to take that approach Russ, expell all your members that drink under age because that is the major riskfactor.

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
Exactly. The word "social" can be interpreted in different ways. I interpret it as being a miniature society, with the implied holistic nature that goes with that. No where do any of our publicly stated ideals refer to partying, so I think that the mini-society idea has merit for the definition of "social" fraternities and sororities.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by James
I think you are being full of it lol . . . if you want to take that approach Russ, expell all your members that drink under age because that is the major riskfactor.

I didn't say that social fraternities don't have parties. I'm saying that we do far more than just party, and that is being very realistic. Also, if I'm wrong, show me just one (inter)national fraternities creed where it focuses on partying. Just one.

[James]

Creed no, reality yes. Look at their calendars and count the amount of social activities versus anything else.

I am not saying its a bad thing at all.
But its what we are.

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
I didn't say that social fraternities don't have parties. I'm saying that we do far more than just party, and that is being very realistic. Also, if I'm wrong, show me just one (inter)national fraternities creed where it focuses on partying. Just one.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by James
Creed no, reality yes. Look at their calendars and count the amount of social activities versus anything else.

I am not saying its a bad thing at all.
But its what we are.

I know what my chapter's calendar was, and is. Between intramural competition, philanthropy participation, service projects, homecoming, and greek week (I think its been replaced with a dance marathon,) we had far more on our calendar than social events. Far more.

As I see it, this is what we are.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I found this article to be rather lacking...where is the part where he talks about concrete solutions?

[James]

All that outweighed your unofficial parties, exchanges, mixers, formals, and just hanging out and drinking with each other?

I am impressed.

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
I know what my chapter's calendar was, and is. Between intramural competition, philanthropy participation, service projects, homecoming, and greek week (I think its been replaced with a dance marathon,) we had far more on our calendar than social events. Far more.

As I see it, this is what we are.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by James
All that outweighed your unofficial parties, exchanges, mixers, formals, and just hanging out and drinking with each other?

I am impressed.

Its not really impressive. Its just the nature of FSU's greek system.

[James]

If you eliminate intramurals does it still outweight socail type activities? Keeping in mind that a lot of the philanthropy mainstream greeks do is social in nature.

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
Its not really impressive. Its just the nature of FSU's greek system.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by James
If you eliminate intramurals does it still outweight socail type activities? Keeping in mind that a lot of the philanthropy mainstream greeks do is social in nature.

My chapter had the last school sanctioned keg party (36 kegs) as part of our Phi Psi 500 philanthropy in 1988. Social aspects of philanthropies were curtailed in the late 80s. If people have fun while doing good, that shouldn't be used as evidence of an Animal House stereotype.

I would say that most weeks had 2-3 hours of IMs that drew a large spectator crowd. There were probably another 2-3 hours, maybe more, of IMs that did not.

If you were to add up the number of socials in a semester, there would usually be 3, plus 1 for homecoming or greek week. That's maybe 24 hours for the semester. Add 2 BBQs with sororities before football games, and that's another 6 hours. Two date functions a semester for another 16 hours. That's 46 hours, or about 3 hours/week of organized social events.

It probably works out to 6-8 hours/week of being around alcohol.

When you start adding up all of the other things that we do, we're in an organized capacity doing things without alcohol more than our combined, and informal, events that are around alcohol.

[33girl]

I know GP said on here once that she's tired of our founders being turned into perfect deities, and I agree. There's mentions of our founders hosting house parties for the Hampden-Sydney men, so obviously they were taking time to have fun. They weren't just discussing the Great Books or helping the downtrodden.

If we didn't have a social component, and a very strong one at that, why would be select who our members are? If it's all about philanthropy and academics, do you really need to like the people to accomplish those goals?

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by 33girl
I know GP said on here once that she's tired of our founders being turned into perfect deities, and I agree. There's mentions of our founders hosting house parties for the Hampden-Sydney men, so obviously they were taking time to have fun. They weren't just discussing the Great Books or helping the downtrodden.

If we didn't have a social component, and a very strong one at that, why would be select who our members are? If it's all about philanthropy and academics, do you really need to like the people to accomplish those goals?

Has anyone said that being social isn't an aspect of the organizations? I know I said that it isn't the PRIMARY goal of the original missions. Founders hosting parties for Hampden-Sydney men seems to demonstrate their desire to foster skills in etiquette and networking, as well as having fun.

ETA: Parties at the time your founders lived were NOT the parties of today!