Debating Idiot Greek Logic
 

This article was originally published in Beta Theta Pi's magazine.

That’s Fratastic!
Debating Idiot Greek Logic
by Mike McRee

Strap on the boots and get ready for a healthy dose of reality. And believe me, it stings a little. You know, the kind of sting you felt when you were a kid getting the anti-bacterial spray from a cut you had. I’ve been working in the Greek field as both a professional and volunteer for the past eight years. And in all my experiences, I believe that you’re either good or you suck. It’s that simple. That black and white. And that hardcore. And, I believe you know I’m right. Think about it. Alums either get it or they don’t. Administrators either get it or they don’t. Heck, even students either get it or they don’t. Why is that so bad to say?

All of us have worked with people who just aren’t on the bus working toward the common good. I mean, let’s face it. If a student really believes in and is committed to hazing, how much education will it take to convince them differently? The better question is, is that even worth my time?

Now, let me be clear here. When I am distinguishing the difference between people who get it and those who don’t, I’m talking about stylistic differences. I’m talking about the fundamental differences between people and ideas. The people who don’t “get it” right now, but are trying to “get it” or who are willing to learn are the people who get it. It’s those individuals who don’t “get it,” won’t even try to “get it” and don’t care to “get it” those are the ones that I’m saying don’t “get it.”

My perspective may be a little different than most for several reasons. First, I’ve been lucky to have out-of-this-world good advisors and mentors to help me along the way. Second, I traveled initially for the North-American Inter- fraternity Conference and not my fraternity. This forced me to learn how to debate on the issues and not rely on the “come on, brother” style of debate. I walked into rooms and environments where people thought I was affiliated with their chapter, and then found out that I wasn’t. All of a sudden, it moved to the “Why is he here?” conversation. When you start behind the eight ball, you are forced to sink or swim. But from all my travels, there have been some universal themes that have emerged. I have found the following to be true:

What chapters really want: To break the law when they want with no ramifications for their actions; the college newspaper to report only the good things rather than what they are really doing; the police to help the chapter when they want but not enforce the law; to have good grades but skip their classes and play PS2 (Playstation) for five hours a day; to have college let them do what they want because their alumni have money, and to have their cake and eat it too.

What is actually happening: We drink too much; we drink more than average students; we binge drink more; we skip class; we cheat more; we test dumber after one year of college; we haze our new members; we do drugs; we are elitist; we are racist; we are homophobic, and we have a higher chance of rape at our parties.

These last statements about what is actually happening are often the smelling salts that wake me up and compel me to pay attention. Even some of the best Greeks, after hearing these kind of “reality” statements about what is actually happening, immediately jump to the knee jerk response of reciting their campus community service stats or how this is really happening with other students on campus too.

How long are we going to use the “85% of Fortune 500 company executives are Greek” statistics? My response: who cares? Folks, you may not know this, but that research was done by the College Fraternity Editors Association and distributed by the North-American Inter- fraternity Conference (NIC) in the early 90s! Those statistics aren’t even true anymore. If you want the most recent statistics all you have to do is call the NIC and talk with a staff member they have them.

The reality is that the negative actions and events are still happening in our membership
right? So, shut up and deal with the problems. I mean, are we really going to get into a debate of one death, alcohol poisoning or sexual assault equals $30,000 of community service. Maybe because so many U.S. Presidents were Greek it will make it better. Come on people, get real. No one outside of the Greek community thinks like that.

The Underlying Model

This kind of thinking where we try to justify the behavior or our actions but we are really trying to divert others’ (and our own) attention to the positive stuff we also do is just the tip of the iceberg. We want people to see us in a certain light or in a certain way. We want people to like us. We want people to appreciate us. We want more friends to join us. And all of that is completely understandable. We’re human.

This type of surface-level-thinking elicits classic comments like: “The administration hates us,” “The campus newspaper is anti-Greek,” “There’s nothing to do in this town,” “We aren’t the only one’s drinking,” “They do this in the residence halls too,” “We’re not like other universities,” “It’s different here,” “Everyone’s always out to get us” and “Why won’t they just leave us alone.”

But if you begin to look below the surface (and what mental models bring forth these kinds of questions or statements), often times there is a much deeper motive like trying to justify our actions on a Friday and Saturday night because we do a certain amount of community service. This is what I call Idiot Greek Logic: stuff, reasons, explanations and rationale that have been passed down from uneducated chapter member to uneducated chapter member, year after year. You know it is passed down, and students try and use it even when it’s not true. “They should leave us alone, because we do so much for the campus. I mean, this campus would be dead if it wasn’t for the Greeks. We do everything student government, student alumni board, homecoming, Greek week we do all of that. And besides our grades are above the all-men’s GPA.”

On almost all campuses, these series of statements are so wrong it’s hard to know where to begin what makes it almost comical is that several other organizations raised more money than the Greeks for community service, Greeks weren’t well represented throughout all organizations and the Greek’s grades weren’t higher than the average male or female on campus. Students have just been taught to say that.

The Hidden Meaning

When you break down the hidden meaning, you help to connect the dots on what is really going on. Over time and without being challenged, people inappropriately attach meaning to events and situations often times they are wrong. But if this goes unchecked overtime, it is easy to see how things get passed down from generation to generation. It’s the blind leading the blind. You can debate these issues on an individual action/behavior level or at a chapter level.
It is very important to separate the facts. Then you can facilitate a conversation about choices and consequences. Then and only then, can you begin to have a conversation of whether or not they like it. An example to illustrate this point is alcohol-free housing (AFH.) First, we must discuss and define what AFH actually means, factually. Second, we can talk about what the consequences are for not following the rules, policies, law, etc. Then we can have a conversation about how the thinking age should really be 18 and how much we dislike this law.
That order and progression enables you, the debater, to focus on each issue, one at a time, instead of in layers. Another way to do this is to take an issue and separate what they think the behavior is accomplishing, and what it is actually doing.

Here are a few examples:
A new member is required to clean the house. They say it teaches respect for the house and instills the value of having a clean house (because they don’t currently respect it. . . or need to prove they have respect for it.) None of the new members actually dirty the chapter house. Why? Because they know they have to clean it up. It’s only the older chapter members who don’t respect the house, or who are lazy, who take their dinner plates and cups upstairs and leave them outside their door. When you know you have to clean it up in two days, there isn’t any incentive for making it dirty now.

New members who don’t pass and/or get a question right on their new member tests have to do 50 push-ups. They say it teaches new members that the history is important and a good member is able to recite it immediately. If doing push-ups leads to better memory retention, then everyone must do 400-500 before each class exam, right? Besides, if the history is that important for all members to know, then why don’t we test the seniors? Sadly, knowing the history has nothing to do with actually acting on the Fraternity’s values on a daily basis.

Debating Greek Logic

I have to admit that when a chapter member mentions one of the statements (shown above,) I have an internal bell that starts ringing. It’s like I’ve hit the jackpot. The mother load. The gold mine. These are the quintessential things I’ve heard over time that just smell of “I’ve personally never really thought about this myself. . . but someone told me that It’s like I’m saying to myself, “Wow, now I’m just going to have to make an example of you.” I really don’t feel like I’m trying to be malicious, but I honestly can no longer stand to have Idiot Greek Logic around me.
In the end, I have found it important to try to get in the student’s head. You have to think about it from their perspective, angle and situation. If you think about where they are and given that
how can you illustrate your point in the most effective way?

You have to know and be where they are in order to know where you need to take them in the conversation. The best way to do this is to actually think about what you did as a student at their age, remember what you were thinking about and dealing with and then try to understand what was the ultimate purpose or goal of what we were doing and is there another, more efficient and better way to do this?

The Truth Hurts

All problems in fraternities lie between what we say we do and what we actually do.
Between what you say to me when I’m going through recruitment. . . and what actually happens when Ijoin. Between what you tell your General Fraternity happens on Friday and Saturday night
and what actually happens on Friday and Saturday night. Between what you tell your parents, what you tell your Greek advisor and what you tell the chapter advisor. . . Between how you tell everyone how important academics and scholarship are.. . and what your actual chapter GPA is (or what percentage the chapter budget is allocated for scholarship.)

It comes down to this: We have good and bad members in all of our chapters. Who’s opinion and thoughts win out decides whether or not our fraternities and sororities are around in the upcoming years. If we want to win the fight, we must become better at debating those uneducated chapter members. And even more importantly, we need to help train other students to be just as effective in those arguments with their peers. Good luck and keep up the fight! j

Mike McRee is director of marketing and development for LeaderShape, Inc. (www.leadershape.org.) He is also a team member of COMPASS and one of the assistant executive directors for the Mid-American Greek Council Association. McRee is a former Greek advisor at the University of Oregon and a consultant for the North-American Interfraternity Conference.

Re: Debating Idiot Greek Logic
 

How many times did this guy read Summer Sisters? LOL

And the point of this would be?

The point would be that there is too much hypocrisy, and too little real leadership, rooted in an honest attempt at creating a meaningful holistic fraternal experience, at the chapter level.

Earth to all of you.

The thing that gets Greek the most grief is that we are an undergraduate social organization where over half our members are under the drinking age but drink anyway.

As far as dissonance with that issue, I don't think many chapters or National's even pretend that our undergrad members are going to obey the drinking laws.

Shrug. Whatcha going' to do about it?

It's an issue of chapter culture. I'm not sure if it can be changed if it already exists a certain way (without some serious house cleaning). It starts with the alums and goes down from there. Often, alums are encouraging the same negative behavior that they used to get away with.

My chapter's lucky. They have less than 20 total alums right now. Most of us still have a hand in something. Our culture has always one that is conscious of grades, safety, hazing, etc.. I'm actually really proud to see my chapter doing so well.

All of these are legitimate problems. I don't know if anyone has the solution though.

Is he crazy?
 

Greeks are easily blamed for all types of things that all college students do. We are social organizations and are at school to have fun and meet new people. In fact an area facilitator just told our chapter that we arent having ENOUGH fun! We are too concerned with programs, volunteering, and being active in school we forgot about the social part! We learned we shouldnt have to miss out on fun just to impress everyone and dispel every stereotype. One slip up from one person and everything good we did doesnt matter anyway. We volunteer, we support the school, we do study hours, we sponsor programs, we attend other Greek events. All the other people on campus can do whatever they want and since most campus's are fairly large, chances are no one really knows them or cares.

As Greeks, our letters mean very little to non Greeks. They dont understand us or our bonds and ideals. They look at us and stereotype us. Its so easy to stereotype any group with a recognizable name. Like i have stressed to my chapter, whatever one member does, reflects on all of us, not only the chapter but all the Greeks on campus. People on campus know your group, and if they see one of your members up on a bar pole dancing at a party, they are going to be able to say "So and So sorority are all *****". But what if they see a nonaffiliated woman up there? "There was this girl at the bar that was such a ****. They sound similar, however, which story do you think is retold and everyone recognizes the name so they keep retelling it? This is how Greeks get stereotyped, because we have a label which makes it easy for us to publicize the good things but in turn makes it so devastating for us to stop rumors or even true things that dont represent our chapters as a whole.

Lesson to be learned: We as Greeks have to basically walk on egg shells unlike the rest of the college folks who dont represent anything as well publicized as the Greek Community. So what if bobby sue came out of the fraternity house at 7am? Not that many people know her so the story isnt interesting to everyone. But if a sorority girl comes out of the house...you dont tell the story with just her name in it, you say her name and sorority. And if you dont know her name, it doesnt matter cuz everyone sure knows her sorority with the big house with the letters on it.

Dont help spread rumors about other chapters on your campus because inevitabley it will affect all Greeks. Most non Greeks just lump us all into one undifferentiated category anyways.

I agree with the author. I think Greeks should reconsider how big they want to grow, what schools they want to be at, and devote resources into making men that follow their mission and aren't there just to socialize.

-Rudey

SOCIAL ORGANIZATIONS
 

Rudey, we are social organizations!

We arent service or professional. We are put on campus to provide support, sisterhood (brotherhood), and an environment conducive to personal growth.

If people dont like that we are social organizations they we as a whole should figure out a label to be called instead of social.

People join Greek organizations to make friends and socialize, a home away from home, a family away from family.

Re: SOCIAL ORGANIZATIONS
 

We are social organizations and more. Your charter does not say you were founded solely to make friends and party.

You just don't get it. There are a ton of idiots out there. These idiots are racists, alcoholics, junkies, rapists, sluts, and more. The idiots present a sizable risk to the rest of us who can enjoy ourselves and have fun without bringing everyone down. We are socially responsible, are dedicated to the ideals of our founders, our philanthropies and will remain committed after college.

You can argue any and which way you want but if you were dying to be a party animal, a bid to my fraternity you would not be getting. In fact maybe it might be good for you to reflect on what the partying is getting you since so many of your members are getting suspended because they can't achieve a 2.5. I could get a 2.5 by rubbing my nuts and randomly showing up to tests.

-Rudey

Re: SOCIAL ORGANIZATIONS
 

I hate to assume anything, but I must do it right now. You are an Alpha Xi Delta, correct?

Alpha Xi Delta's Mission

The mission of Alpha Xi Delta Fraternity is to enrich the life of every Alpha Xi Delta.
We will:

Nurture unity and cooperation
Foster intellectual, professional, and personal growth
Exemplify the highest ethical conduct
Instill community responsibility
Perpetuate fraternal growth

I don't believe I see anything that suggests that yours is a purely social organization. I see professionalism, philanthropy, morality, etc.

I only point this out because I tend to agree with Rudey (surprise surprise!). Perhaps if organizations began to live by their mission statements, the problem would begin to fade!!

Good article, Russ. Thanks for posting. Rudey and preciousjeni, those were excellent points. 33, you crack me up.

Re: Re: SOCIAL ORGANIZATIONS
 

Exactly. The word "social" can be interpreted in different ways. I interpret it as being a miniature society, with the implied holistic nature that goes with that. No where do any of our publicly stated ideals refer to partying, so I think that the mini-society idea has merit for the definition of "social" fraternities and sororities.

Re: Re: SOCIAL ORGANIZATIONS
 

I have well above a 2.5, I am on the Deans List, and am on the executive board. I am not promoting partying in any way. Our sisters are not suffering from bad grades because of partying. As on my first post I said "In fact an area facilitator just told our chapter that we arent having ENOUGH fun! We are too concerned with programs, volunteering, and being active in school we forgot about the social part! We learned we shouldnt have to miss out on fun just to impress everyone and dispel every stereotype." Our sisters haven't been able to get good grades because we have so many activities and things to do trying to be the best on campus that there is little time for anything else, even fun (which does not mean partying).

The point of my post was to say that one of us represents all of us. And if one person does something wrong, others generalize that all greeks act the same way. Just because some greeks act like idiots and dont know how to act mature and responsible when drinking doesnt mean that all greeks act like that. Its just one or two people who make a show of themselves and then everyone thinks all greeks act like this. This is why we need to be very careful when recruiting.