it's a damn shame....

[Rudey]

Originally posted by moe.ron
1)"I've got an idea, let's kill all Muslims." That pretty much advocating genocide.

2) So, it's more of the Arab culture, and not the religion. I can understand that. Though, I would put the blame more on the leadership of the region for not only advocating, but trying to spread it. More in particular, the House of Saud.

1) Here is an article on Indonesia: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...ICLE_ID=38239. Again I don't know enough to comment nor do I had the full interest.

2) You're trying to judge his quote based on his quote. Perhaps you'd have fun with some of these? My point in posting these is perhaps there is more of a message than just a couple words that this man has to say. Either way, I haven't had the time to look at this nor had I even heard about it until today to form my own opinion about it. My posts were to initally say that if this is something that has merit, then it shouldn't piggy back on other cultures and religions - especially if you can't seem to find problems with Muslims who make those same statements.

-O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78)

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

3) Very few people understand how the house of Saud as well as certain aspects of religion and culture have retarded the regional development - including many stupid anglos and Americans who protest things they know nothing about.

-Rudey

[moe.ron]

1) I'll concede that he might mean something more then that. However, he must also realized that by saying that "I've got an idea, let's kill all Muslims" will create a storm.

As for the Molucu thing, there is more to it in there then religion which the media does not cover that well. They failed to mention that there is a power struggle by politicians which used violance to gain the upperhand. Then there is the presence of foreigners in the conflict which has made peace in the island harder. I've been there on fact finding mission, and both groups in the island have complain about the same thing. Another thing to consider is that the inciter of this is on both groups.

2) Talking with some Muslim clerics in Indonesia, they all have the same complaints. That the radical version of Islam is being financed straight from the House of Saud. They've wanted to government to monitor school's which received funds from House of Saud closely. And it is being done after the Bali bombing. All those that were arrested for the bombing came from one school. That school was funded by the House of Saud. Why haven't they closed the school down? One main reason, it is easier to monitor them if they are in one area then if the house gets shut down and they disperse all over the 18,000 plus islands.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by moe.ron
1) I'll concede that he might mean something more then that. However, he must also realized that by saying that "I've got an idea, let's kill all Muslims" will create a storm.

As for the Molucu thing, there is more to it in there then religion which the media does not cover that well. They failed to mention that there is a power struggle by politicians which used violance to gain the upperhand. Then there is the presence of foreigners in the conflict which has made peace in the island harder. I've been there on fact finding mission, and both groups in the island have complain about the same thing. Another thing to consider is that the inciter of this is on both groups.

2) Talking with some Muslim clerics in Indonesia, they all have the same complaints. That the radical version of Islam is being financed straight from the House of Saud. They've wanted to government to monitor school's which received funds from House of Saud closely. And it is being done after the Bali bombing. All those that were arrested for the bombing came from one school. That school was funded by the House of Saud. Why haven't they closed the school down? One main reason, it is easier to monitor them if they are in one area then if the house gets shut down and they disperse all over the 18,000 plus islands.

It would be easier to just liquidate 18,000 such "students" when they're in one place.

-Rudey

[swissmiss04]

-O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]
Auliyah (in the Arabic text) means protectors. Not friends. Next?

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.
2:273 says "Charity is for the poor who in God's cause are restricted and cannot move about. Those who know them not think they are rich for their modesty. You may know their mark, they do not beg of people at all. And whatever you spend in good, surely God knows it well."

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).
Once again, you're way off. 4:96-"Degrees of grades from Him and forgiving and mercy. For God is ever-forgiving, most merciful.

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere"
This verse discusses shortening your prayer if you fear you will be in danger of attack.

(Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

4:90 says not to fight people w/ whom you have a truce
2:193 Discusses fighting in defense of people who malign faith. Not "spreading Islam by the sword," as it were.
8:12 Discusses the punishment for people (pagans) who attacked the early muslims with the intent of annihilation. At the time (no longer allowed, of course) it was a means of self preservation.

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).
9:39 Addresses the need of all people to struggle (jihad) to live their lives according to God. It's not a "will" but a "could".
9:81 Is the reminder to be brave in any struggle, not just battle (every day is a struggle) because it beats being in hell

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78) The word is not "fight." "Strive" is more like it. In any faith, adhering to its principles is not an easy job. It does not mean to be war mongering or aggressive.

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123). Yes fight, but only if attacked first.

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29). Not ruthless,dear. Sorry. The best translation I can give is "stern."
- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69). If you have won things by fighting justly in a just war (i.e. you didn't attack first) then you are entitled to it. Kind of like what we're doing now in Iraq with the palaces and such.

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).
This verse discusses not stealing the property of orphans. As before, you're way off.

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3). not "fight." "Strive." Strive to be good.
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34). Not in favor of another religion. And this was only allowable if they not only attacked but continued the assault.

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)
This is not a sound hadith. Not like you would understand nor do you care what that means.

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5) Ugh. Puhlease. If you read this in context (as in the first 12 verses of chapter 9) you would know that it was the commandment of God to the muslims for one battle. ONE battle. Not a longstanding commandment. Cliche.

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37) This is God's punishment in the afterlife for people who don't believe in God. Nothing that any of us could or should do.

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)
Uh, you quoted this a few lines up.

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

again? please!

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55
Again, not a sound hadith. Hadith were collected 200 years after the death of muhammad and therefore are not always correct. There is a system by which one determines the veracity of a particular hadith.


Don't act as if you have a clue about what you're talking about. You simply don't.
Heather
-Don't start none, won't be none.

[Rudey]

For someone who claims to have gotten into Yale but chose to go to Alabama, something is lacking in your ability to think "Heather".

Evidently, you couldn't quite understand what I was trying to say. That's good for you though that you chose to stay at Alabama and provide them with your talent. Anything less, would have been unacceptable.

-Rudey

Originally posted by swissmiss04
-O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]
Auliyah (in the Arabic text) means protectors. Not friends. Next?

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.
2:273 says "Charity is for the poor who in God's cause are restricted and cannot move about. Those who know them not think they are rich for their modesty. You may know their mark, they do not beg of people at all. And whatever you spend in good, surely God knows it well."

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).
Once again, you're way off. 4:96-"Degrees of grades from Him and forgiving and mercy. For God is ever-forgiving, most merciful.

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere"
This verse discusses shortening your prayer if you fear you will be in danger of attack.

(Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

4:90 says not to fight people w/ whom you have a truce
2:193 Discusses fighting in defense of people who malign faith. Not "spreading Islam by the sword," as it were.
8:12 Discusses the punishment for people (pagans) who attacked the early muslims with the intent of annihilation. At the time (no longer allowed, of course) it was a means of self preservation.

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).
9:39 Addresses the need of all people to struggle (jihad) to live their lives according to God. It's not a "will" but a "could".
9:81 Is the reminder to be brave in any struggle, not just battle (every day is a struggle) because it beats being in hell

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78) The word is not "fight." "Strive" is more like it. In any faith, adhering to its principles is not an easy job. It does not mean to be war mongering or aggressive.

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123). Yes fight, but only if attacked first.

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29). Not ruthless,dear. Sorry. The best translation I can give is "stern."
- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69). If you have won things by fighting justly in a just war (i.e. you didn't attack first) then you are entitled to it. Kind of like what we're doing now in Iraq with the palaces and such.

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).
This verse discusses not stealing the property of orphans. As before, you're way off.

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3). not "fight." "Strive." Strive to be good.
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34). Not in favor of another religion. And this was only allowable if they not only attacked but continued the assault.

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)
This is not a sound hadith. Not like you would understand nor do you care what that means.

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5) Ugh. Puhlease. If you read this in context (as in the first 12 verses of chapter 9) you would know that it was the commandment of God to the muslims for one battle. ONE battle. Not a longstanding commandment. Cliche.

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37) This is God's punishment in the afterlife for people who don't believe in God. Nothing that any of us could or should do.

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)
Uh, you quoted this a few lines up.

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

again? please!

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55
Again, not a sound hadith. Hadith were collected 200 years after the death of muhammad and therefore are not always correct. There is a system by which one determines the veracity of a particular hadith.


Don't act as if you have a clue about what you're talking about. You simply don't.
Heather
-Don't start none, won't be none.

[swissmiss04]

I'm sorry that I couldn't let your hateful and bigoted rant stand. And how does this prove I can't think? At least I'm not the one just quoting shit off a website w/o backing it up w/ my own research. Sheep.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
I'm sorry that I couldn't let your hateful and bigoted rant stand. And how does this prove I can't think? At least I'm not the one just quoting shit off a website w/o backing it up w/ my own research. Sheep.

You are such a genius it's amazing. Yale was undeserving of someone of your caliber when they sent that imaginary admissions letter.

My message at that point was to not take things just based on a quote. I posted that and you could interpret them based on those words or more. But you couldn't get that.

-Rudey
--Go play music or something now.

[enlightenment06]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
-O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]
Auliyah (in the Arabic text) means protectors. Not friends. Next?

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.
2:273 says "Charity is for the poor who in God's cause are restricted and cannot move about. Those who know them not think they are rich for their modesty. You may know their mark, they do not beg of people at all. And whatever you spend in good, surely God knows it well."

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).
Once again, you're way off. 4:96-"Degrees of grades from Him and forgiving and mercy. For God is ever-forgiving, most merciful.

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere"
This verse discusses shortening your prayer if you fear you will be in danger of attack.

(Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

4:90 says not to fight people w/ whom you have a truce
2:193 Discusses fighting in defense of people who malign faith. Not "spreading Islam by the sword," as it were.
8:12 Discusses the punishment for people (pagans) who attacked the early muslims with the intent of annihilation. At the time (no longer allowed, of course) it was a means of self preservation.

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).
9:39 Addresses the need of all people to struggle (jihad) to live their lives according to God. It's not a "will" but a "could".
9:81 Is the reminder to be brave in any struggle, not just battle (every day is a struggle) because it beats being in hell

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78) The word is not "fight." "Strive" is more like it. In any faith, adhering to its principles is not an easy job. It does not mean to be war mongering or aggressive.

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123). Yes fight, but only if attacked first.

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29). Not ruthless,dear. Sorry. The best translation I can give is "stern."
- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69). If you have won things by fighting justly in a just war (i.e. you didn't attack first) then you are entitled to it. Kind of like what we're doing now in Iraq with the palaces and such.

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).
This verse discusses not stealing the property of orphans. As before, you're way off.

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3). not "fight." "Strive." Strive to be good.
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34). Not in favor of another religion. And this was only allowable if they not only attacked but continued the assault.

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)
This is not a sound hadith. Not like you would understand nor do you care what that means.

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5) Ugh. Puhlease. If you read this in context (as in the first 12 verses of chapter 9) you would know that it was the commandment of God to the muslims for one battle. ONE battle. Not a longstanding commandment. Cliche.

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37) This is God's punishment in the afterlife for people who don't believe in God. Nothing that any of us could or should do.

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)
Uh, you quoted this a few lines up.

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

again? please!

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55
Again, not a sound hadith. Hadith were collected 200 years after the death of muhammad and therefore are not always correct. There is a system by which one determines the veracity of a particular hadith.


Don't act as if you have a clue about what you're talking about. You simply don't.
Heather
-Don't start none, won't be none.

basically

[Rudey]

Originally posted by enlightenment06
basically

Basically what?

-Rudey
--I was hoping you didn't have troubles reading as well.

[_Opi_]

*clap clap* @heather

[Rudey]

Originally posted by _Opi_
*clap clap* @heather

Did you also get an imaginary acceptance letter from Yale and learn to read and think like "Heather"?

-Rudey

[_Opi_]

No, but two thumbs down for you rudey!

[Rudey]

Originally posted by _Opi_
No, but two thumbs down for you rudey!

No, Two slaps in the ear for you _opi_!

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Nothing like a few personal attacks to keep a conversation lively.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Nothing like a few personal attacks to keep a conversation lively.

Nothing like a bunch of people who can't read to kill the conversation. Nothing like a man who feels the need to comment and show he's better and above others.

-Rudey
--But in the end, it's all a bunch of nothing.