Obsession with total...why?

[rushqueen44]

A few points:

There is almost zero correlation between the size of a new member class and retention. I've seen chapters with 70 new members keep every single one of them, and I've seen chapters with 10 lose half of that.

There is also zero correlation between the size of a chapter and the level of sisterhood and commitment to the organization. Again, I've seen chapters of 200 women who live the ideals of their organization to a T. And, I've seen chapters of 13 women who treat each other like shit.

Amen to all of those who pointed out that this whole "we want to be small - we're selective" thing is a bunch of crap. If you're so selective and exclusive, why didn't you make quota? Did you have at least quota at your preference parties? If you did, I've got bad news for you. I've you're so hot and your sisterhood is so strong, then there's no way you wouldn't have made quota.

Numbers speak volumes. Amen to FuzzieAlum for pointing out the burden that comes with being a small chapter. If everyone else on campus has 150, and you have 50, each one of your members has to do the work of three people.

I question where you are finding these women that you are just handing out bids to. Handing out bids to the first women you see without ensuring that they meet the standards of your organization just to hit total speaks of gross laziness on your part. If you can't find what you want, get up and go find women you do want. If you're waiting for them to come to you, you're going to be waiting a long time.

From a national org or a campus standpoint, 10 vacancies in total is ten women on campus that could be Greek that haven't been offered the opportunity. If you can't find ten women at your school who you think could offer something unique and valuable to your chapter, then please tell me where you go to school. I'll put it on my "don't ever let any friend or relative go there" list.

[AXOLiz]

I agree with all of you when you say that being small isn't everything the small chapters make it out to be and that if you're handing out bids to anyone who's breathing, that is lazy. However, it seemed like the original post wasn't dealing with a small chapter, but a chapter that was a few below total. My beef with total is that, if you're a few below and don't have anyone you totally love and want to give a bid to at that very second, why can't you wait and rush some more until you do have the quality women you want?

I've graduated, so I'm no longer active in my chapter, but the people who are have had a lot of pressure from nationals to give bids to girls they don't know that well just to hit ceiling. To me, it makes more sense to hold off and keep rushing because, chances are, if there are only 2 or 3 spots open, you'll be able to find 2 or 3 great girls after a few more rush events. It doesn't mean you'll NEVER find 2 or 3 great women, so what's the problem with trying to find them as opposed to giving up just to make numbers? That's what I don't get - it doesn't make sense to me for a national organization to encourage a chapter to take the first girls that show up and seem "ok" when, chances are, given another month you'd be able to find 3 great girls and a lot more. When you're half the size of the other chapters on campus, yeah, there's a problem there. But if you're down by a few and actively rushing, what's the big deal?

[dphies00]

Well, its as good a time for my 2 cents as anyone else's.

I agree 100% with what rushqueen said. But, as I'm from a northern chapter with quota at 60, I think 50+ is a lovely size. But, if you are a third of the size of other sororities on your campus, it is time to examine your image to your campus and how you examplify the ideals of your sorority. It has been my experience that no matter what your size in comparison with the other sororities on campus, if you really are that tight and strong as a chapter, you will have your pick of interested, quality women. We doubled in size this term, taking 19 new members with quota at 17, and some days we had just 17 sisters recruiting while most other chapters on campus had over 50. And we still cut usually a 20- 40% every day with the support of our nationals, even as small as we were.

I truly question people's perceptions of what they believe their nationals want as far as numbers and recruitment go. As a freshmen and sophomore, the attitude of everyone in my chapter was Nationals only wants us to get numbers and warm bodies in the door. They really didn't care about the integrity of my chapter and the need for quality women. And it is hard as a collegiate to remember that Nationals really does want the best for your chapter, whether its total, a kickass new member program or a strong financial plan. However, and my Nationals is the only one I know about, my chapter was dying and when the poo hit the fan, they actually stood by us. They've pushed us to examine the qualities of women we want in our chapter, how we can find these qualities during recruitment, and how to market our small chapter effectively to retain these magnificent (sp?) women during recruitment through to initation. Basically, they used every one of their resources of the behind-the-scenes rush stuff to help us realize our job. IT WAS SO MUCH FREAKING WORK!!!!! But we did it - and now our small chapter is growing and that is the biggest compliment ever. (All but four women in my chapter took littles!) However, if your Nationals is not providing these resources, and just ignoring your pleas for help with recruitment, then try having your rush chair talk to your Greek Advisor about getting help from National Panhel.

Oh, and COB COB COB COB COB. Dude, you already know quality women or they aren't worth your time as friends. If you have 2 or 3 spots from formal recruitment open, you should try to fill them with people. Waiting two or three months just means competition for women rushing is that much more desparate with other chapters whose Nationals are forcing them to total.

From a national org or a campus standpoint, 10 vacancies in total is ten women on campus that could be Greek that haven't been offered the opportunity. If you can't find ten women at your school who you think could offer something unique and valuable to your chapter, then please tell me where you go to school. I'll put it on my "don't ever let any friend or relative go there" list.

Amen to that.

This has been, like, my longest post ever. WHEW!

Edited by James to make the Color Orange come out

[33girl]

OK, this has gotten totally off Anne Marie's original post. She was expressing her dismay that her rush chair seems to be more concerned with hitting total than strengthening sisterhood.

There is strong sisterhood in all sizes of chapters, and there is weak sisterhood in all sizes of chapters. If you have 200 sisters and you are happy - stupendous. I personally would not have enjoyed that, and chose my chapter because it was smaller than the other group I was looking at. I felt I would get lost in a bigger group (this was before I had such a big mouth ) - in the smaller group I would have more opportunity to be myself and stand out. Of course, those are my personal reasons. I had sisters who wrang their hands for 4 years because we were small and they were so hung up on it that they couldn't change it - i.e. rush or COB quality women effectively. In retrospect, perhaps they shouldn't have pledged us. I've never claimed my chapter was "elite" or "exclusive" because it was smaller than some of the other groups - just stated that I, personally, preferred it that way.

I agree with what AXOLiz said - I'd rather wait 2 months to work (and yes, sometimes it takes a while to get someone to pledge) to get women who I know will be great, rather than give in to the "quota pressure" and bid "OK" women solely because they happen to be there.

Edited to add, going Greek is not for everyone. Unless you have zero variety in your social circle, not everyone who is a great friend will make a great sister. If you believe they will, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

[Little E]

The issue of numbers seems to come up a lot around this place, I don't really get it either, but for the thread, it is good to remember that while it is everyone's job to have a strong sisterhood, it is the recruitment chair's job to push for a good new class. Creating a strong sisterhood takes time, and tons of committment from everyone in the chapter. My chapter has worked on the quality of our sisterhood and it is starting to be seen, but it doesn't happen overnight. We looked at how our WHOLE chapter worked, from our philanthropy, sisterhood to bids; making sure we understand who we are. We are young and have a lot to develop.

I think it is a pitfall to blame national or NPC for a chapter needing numbers. We have AST chapters that have had incredibly low numbers and instead of yanking charters, they've sent people to help. A chapter close to mine lost half of their 22 women to graduation, making them tiny. Instead of whinning, they invited the chapter's near them to come and help out during pref/rush. It was a great experience for both us/them/ and the rushees who saw the sisterhood first hand.

I guess don't blame, different chapters do better at different sizes there are no two identical chapters anywhere. (I don't believe it anyhow) and saying we should be we should be is wasting time. Enjoy your collegiate years and have fun. Make it your experience, get to know the new girls, branch out. But don't blame, it doesn't belong anywhere but yourself. (In most cases)
Tau Love and Good Luck
Lil E

[AGDLynn]

bump!

Originally posted by AXOLiz
I've noticed the obsession with total and I think it sucks. We've ended up taking girls who we knew didn't fit our chapter or would be a problem from the beginning - and guess what - they turned out to be big problems and either deactivated or gave everyone else hell or were just plain miserable. Or we took the ones that were super nice and had so much "potential for growth." Ok, fine, I personally believe every freshman will definitely grow, but why are we taking sophomores and juniors that can "grow"? If you're excepting them to change and suddenly become less shy and turn into super rushers, that's:

1) Not going to happen.
2) Unfair because it means you don't want the girl for who she is, you want her for who you want to try to turn her into.
3) Not staying true to the membership criteria, because last time I checked, "nice" wasn't one of them.

Yes, I hate super-exclusive chapters that make a point about bragging about it. But frankly, when you start giving everyone and their mother a bid, that's when your numbers start going down. I'm sick of seeing chapters pushed into taking people they shouldn't solely for numbers when chances are, if they were more picky about who they gave bids to and worked on developing a stronger sisterhood, quality girls would start becoming interested.

As heinous as it sounds...no one wants to be in the chapter that gives bids to EVERYONE because you never know who you'll end up with.

I feel for you. Phi Gam used to do that and at one point we took on a buncha girls who were there just for an extra set of Greek letters (they knew our sisters from a music fraternity). We ended up getting royally screwed because a lot of those sisters stopped participating. Also, those who did participate more so to make up for the laziness of sisters mentioned above got burned out and stopped participating as well.

However, I've got to admit that my pledge sister is an exception to this. Our president (and her Big) saw the potential she had to become a great sister. I've got to admit that I didn't see it until i-week, but now she is so determined to keep us going. She really came out of her shell.

[astroAPhi]

Right now, my chapter is at 3 below total. We haven't been at total since our chapter was founded in 1990. This is very exciting for us, especially since we have full faith in all the girls here. Up until this past semester, we have always hovered somewhere between 28-33 girls, and total is 40. I have only ever had one sister resign in my 3 years here, but Florida Tech has a tendency to lose many freshmen after their first year. I am always very sad because each year, at least one of my sisters simply don't come back to school, without warning.

However, we NEEDED to be at total right now. When I joined, we had some of our largest pledge classes ever. My pledge class is 12, and the one after me had 9 girls. Most of us were freshmen when we joined. Now, seniors make up over 1/3 of the sorority. We were terrified that we wouldn't have enough girls when all of us graduated. However, if we are at or above total, that makes us much more healthy than we were before. Many fraternities are getting worried because interest is low on our campus right now. If it doesn't pick up in the next year, I expect we'll lose a fraternity or two within the next 2 years.

I've seen chapters die or halve in size when their senior class graduates. It is very difficult to recover from if your underclassmen don't have enough leadership opportunities or experience with being Greek. That's another reason why being at total is important.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by astroAPhi
I've seen chapters die or halve in size when their senior class graduates. It is very difficult to recover from if your underclassmen don't have enough leadership opportunities or experience with being Greek. That's another reason why being at total is important.

So true - we have no total on my campus, but we've "set" it at 35. My chapter is going to be in bad shape if they don't do well at recruitment - we have 20 actives:

1 superduper senior
1 super senior
1 senior
1 sophomore
and 16 juniors.

We're in good shape right now but we have got get a lot of freshmen or we'll be in big trouble in the next two years - everybody will be disappearing.

[rocketaxid]

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
I wanted to add: I can only speak about my own experiences with my own GLO, of course. But my impression has been that AXD at least is less focused on being at total than being at the same size as the other chapters on campus. At some places this is total or over, but at other schools it's far less (or there is no total).

Intersting being a fellow AXD

The way I understood it from our COB chair last year was that as long as we had open spaces, aka not at quota, we had to keep having COBs. We are also the only chapter on campus not close to quota, so that might have something to do with it. We are also the newest chapter on campus and we just rec'd a house this past year, since the house number have increased dramatically.

I also could be wrong.

[33girl]

Bumping as this has been on my mind lately...


rock on all.

I agree with Rushqueen44. People need to realize PR is a key point in maintaining a sorority or fraternity, although not the only thing. Most members in Greek Life don't want to do the work of 2 or 3 people and therefore they don't do it. Due to that, PR isn't up to par and you won't get the quality or quantity New Members you so desire.

Never settle! That's my advice I guess. To never settle, you have to put everything you have in you plus some. It's like the giving 110% thing.

I wish the best of luck to everyone during Recruitment and I hope everyone does/did well!

[AEPhiSierra]

my school doesn't have total but i can understand why its so important to your national. i really feel numbers are a reflection of the chapter. from personal experience my chapter's number have increased in the past couple of years and i think its directly correlated to the strength of our chapter. we are getting along better so sisters stick around longer, our sisters perform better in shcool so we are having less sisters transfer or drop out (fairly common at my school), we are better organized so we run things like rush more efficiently and effectively and resultingly keep getting women. And its not about giving bids out to everyone either - we gave out the least amount of invites to pref night last year.

Other chapters on my campus have gotten smaller and maybe they don't realize why but i think for some the reasons are obvious: some are always fighting with each other, other are still obsessed with hazing as the only path to sisterhood and lose many new members as a result, some are completely disorganized. Low numbers are often symptoms of problems like these and i think it makes complete sense for nationals to focus on your numbers as a symptom since they can't be on your campus everyday and see the exact problems.

[James]

Lets say a semester has 15 weeks.

After formal Rush there is a COB process of a couple weeks and then you form your NM clas right?

Mostly I have seen the inflexibility of the new member program as a major issue. Most Programs seem based on Cohorts. Your grouped is formed by 3rd week of classes and and then goes through as a cohort, beginning and ending together.

Are your programs flexible enough that can keep adding girls into your New Class all the way until the end of the semester? Even if they have to initiate at different times?

If you can do that it would be so much easier to keep numbers up.

[astroAPhi]

Well, the Alpha Phi new member period is supposed to be around 6 weeks, with 8 weeks being the absolute maximum. In the past, we'd always had the girls wait 8 weeks because they never felt like they were ready.

In the Spring of my sophomore year, we gave a bid to a girl who was pinned and initiated 3 weeks later. Alpha Phi requires that a new member have a minimum of 6 hours of fraternity education before initiation. She was willing to put in the extra time so that she could be initiated that semester, and caught up on all the time. This past fall we did the same for another girl. It can work. Both girls were happily accepted into their pledge classes.

However, doing more than one initiation/semester would be really rough. By the time we were able to get around to our 2nd initiation, it would either be Thanksgiving or right around the middle of April, when seniors are scrambling to get everything done. That, and the fact that I'm pretty sure that we're only allowed to do one initiation/semester makes that almost impossible.

Honestly, I think keeping numbers up has to do with 2 things: Rush skills, and general interest in Greek life. It's a lot easier to keep numbers up when you have people wanting to Rush or at least investigate GLOs before they even get to school.