Pledging

[Professor]

"The hardest part of being an Alpha is after you cross those burning sands."

There you have it - thanks frat!!!!!

[LadyAKA]

Finally the Alpha Phi Alpha forum gets on a roll and the only word I can use to describe the topic at hand is IGNORANT!

So now we all know that your chapter Pledges hard and we are oh so impressed! Dexter you boldly stated that those that did not pledge hard are trying to defend themselves &/or their process, oh what a crop of ****. I can't bear to type what I want to say or what needs to be said - my pretty pinkies might explode from the length of the post. More importantly, I see the direction this discussion has taken and I prefer not to have these conversations on the net. If you so-called 'Complete Alpha Phi Alpha Brothers' are in the New York CITY area maybe we can have a lunch/brunch or dinner sometime and chat about this very topic. I need face to face interaction, because this internet conversation aint working, I am so heated about how you are not only disrespecting yourself and your organization but how you are making Greekdom look like hell hazer heaven

I just lost the taste in my mouth because of you guys....please if you have anything intelligent to say e-mail me and if yall wanna hook up and really chat about this then name the time and place.

Always with sisterly love
LadyAKA

[This message has been edited by LadyAKA (edited July 10, 2000).]

[Professor]

To my most distinguished brothers of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. and the ever so beautiful and vibrant sisters of Alpha Kappa Alpha, Inc. I send loud shouts of "06 to 08." While I much enjoy the debate this topic has sparked, I strongly suggest, especially to my brothers, that we venture to new horizons. Clearly, we have read a number of opinions among the string. I myself have been enlightened by the commentary but strongly believe it's time for the train to move o n on on on on! It is my sicerest hope that the brotherly and sisterly respect will persist in the next topic.

My Warmest Personal Regards,
"06"

[Dexter]

Lady AKA,
Again find myself having to explain that MY opinions about MY fraternity are MY own!
With all due respect, I have every right to voice how I feel about the way MY Fraternity does it's process. No one is saying that the harder you pledge the better Brother you will be. In MY opinion pledging is the easiest part. If you do nothing after you cross then you might have well as skated! I think that when it comes to the JEWELS of A-PHI-A, they have set standards in our frat as to how they want people to join. All we are saying is that there is a vital lesson in brotherhood missed by those who didn't have a process like ours. Not saying that MINE was harder than everyone elses, because no one process will be the same, but If it were as easy as signing your name to a check then my JEWELS probably would have made the frat open to everyone instead of a frozen few! There are many brothers out ther who share the same ideas as myself and there are those who don't let us discuss this issue. I don't judge other organizations on their processes because that doesn't pertain to me. I'm A-PHI-A, not AKA, DST, K-A-PSI, O-PSI-PHI, S-G-RHO, Z-PHI-B, or P-B-S. I am discussing this with members of A-PHI-A. Eventhough this is not a private forum, I am only interested in the bruhs response to this issue. Just like you all told Bruh Professor not add his 1906 cents to a topic that you sisters were discussing a while back, the same advice applies here. If you wish to carry this conversation further you can e-mail me at fuquanlove@hotmail.com

[Taykimson]

Brother Dexter,

You are missing my point.

Yes, the heading on this page says Alpha Phi Alpha. However, this forum is very public. Let’s go back and read some of the posts. My point was (and still is) those are harsh words to say publicly about a member of Alpha Phi Alpha.

If you haven’t guessed, I’m all about showing a united front/face to the outside world. That is how I was taught.

Let’s use the analogy of your biological family. Yes, you argue, but when you leave your home it is your family against the world. You may have a sibling that is lazy, trifling, etc, etc, but God help the person that says these things about your sibling. More importantly, you would never describe your sibling that way to anyone outside your family unit.

One last comment. The initial post said “…we need something to kick off a little controversy…” Well, you’ve got controversy. It seems you only want people to respond if their view is similar to yours.

Sisterly,
Taykimson
-----------------
Alpha Kappa Alpha
17-Alpha Phi-91


[This message has been edited by Taykimson (edited July 10, 2000).]

[The Original Ape]

I think there is a SERIOUS need for pledging.
Pledging, when planned and organized properly, can/will provide discipline to the lives of men and women who otherwise would never know it. It teaches us to respect our own authority, and to use our behavior in such a way as to bring honor to those that know and love us. It makes us think about the repercussions of our actions/inaction. It reinforces the fact that we are all dependent on our brothers and sisters. It teaches us time-management. It makes us look at ourselves from inside out, and makes many of us face unknown fears-when we normally would have run from them. It makes many of us grow the....up! It is African in origin, a rite of passage. It is of our culture, and we should never have allowed the WIDER SOCIETY define what is legal in making our brothers and sisters. Their definition of hazing is fine, as it pertains to their culture; but it does not apply to ours. Some form of pledging is necessary to weed out those persons that seek membership for the wrong reasons.

If it was all that bad, why would so many people still want it?

[Dexter]

Taykimson,
I understand what you are saying about this forum being public, but I read in you forum about a topic on your boule. Some sisters were financial and some weren't. That's okay, how you all handle your business is just that, YOURS. My LB has an opinion on a matter that is on his mind. This is as good a place as any to discuss it. If he didn't want it to be seen by anyone, believe me he wouldn't have said it.
I will not pass judgement on anyone else's organization, but when it comes to mine, I had to work hard to obtain A-PHI-A and I will voice my discontent at the state of it in front of the world if I have to. Because it means so much to me. For instance Do we tell Christians not to tell anyone what JESUS says are sins? No. We say the bible says this is what JESUS wants. Think about it.

[Usual Suspect #7]

Brother Goliath, "The Other BA #7-MG", Brother Spectrum, Fellow Brothers and Sisters -
(Spectrum - That's what to expect from a Beta Bro.) What's up Dex, Mike. You all can turn blue in the face trying to explain the importance of pledging, but some people just won't get it. Until the National organizations of all frats and sororities realize that the only means of coming to a compromise without compromising the organizations, will be to take responsiblity for "above ground" activies (ie. getting grad chapters involved with undergrad chapters)
You see it everyday, people are hazing kids and they haven't even been pledged. THAT's the problem. I understand that some chapters don't have the option of pledging, but when it comes down to it, they feel/see the difference in being a member of an organization vs. a brother/sister. So what do they do...start beating the hell out of people.
I don't want to say that with the way some of our Greek National organizations make it so easy to become a member, that brotherhood isn't the goal, but that's what's up. Not to even be disrespectful, but for real. Those who sweated, bled and cried for their organizations have the obligation to continue the "true" chapter/frat/soroity traditions that have been deemed unnecessary by many "leaders". I'll also agree 100% that "pledging" is an ongoing process. As in anything, you never cease to grow. But you need a foundation.

Thank you for your time and apologize for the crude layout of this letter, but want I wanted to be perfectly clear in my opinion. I embrace any and all comments.

Peace with you - 06

P.S. What is everyone's definition of brotherhood/sisterhood?

[SkeeBunny]

I tried to refrain from posting on this topic, but as usual, I couldn't help myself. I will try to keep this brief.

You cannot miss or begin to comprehend something that you've never had. If you pledged, you hold that near and dear to your heart and you don't understand how others who did not go through a process can foster the same voracity and passion that you have for your org. On the other hand, those that did not pledge have no experience on which to base their current opinions and could not possibly begin to understand what pledging means. You can't make an apple understand what it means to be an orange.

I say all that to say that this is discussion is a moot point. Whatever route you took should be a very personal and private matter. No need to get defensive about something that you can't even relate to.

For those that feel that pledging is the only way, I say lobby for change. Instead of downing the current system, let's come up with a feasible way to implement those factors that we know are pertinent to a successful process. Until then, be grateful for the opportunity that you had and look for ways to better relationships with those that may not fully understand what sisterhood/brotherhood is all about.

And Soror Taykimson, I feel you 100% on presenting a united front, on both sides. Where is the love, man???!!!

[This message has been edited by SkeeBunny (edited July 11, 2000).]

[Usual Suspect #7]

IT'S ALL LOVE EVERYONE!!! Discussion brings forth ideas, ideas invoke a plan, and a good plan brings about change. We're ALL grown and should encourage compassionate language and provocative topics to ponder. As leaders, aren't these the questions and issues we should be solving?

How was everyone's 4th of July? If anyone in the Maryland, DC, VA area interested in the "Coldest" boat cruise of the year on July 22 in Baltimore, email me at 7thSon_06@blackplanet.com.

Peace and Sincerity,
CPT Kill

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by Spectrum3_1906:
Let's be real for a minute brother....
No one should be able to just WALK into our fraternity. No one should be able to just go on the internet download an application, pay some money and have a lifetime membership. Yes our founders did "develop" a physical process and yes this does go back to African roots and rites of passage, but this is still the year 2000. Maybe for a brief moment in in December 1906 Alpha Phi Alpha was a perfect fraternity, a perfect brotherhood; but even from it's inception (and before) there were constant struggles. In the year 2000 hazing is ILLEGAL. I do believe there is a fine line between pledging and hazing, but where does the line get drawn? The law of the land will never understand the difference between pledging and hazing (Alpha Phi Alpha is not "allowed" to see the difference between pledging and hazing, because you can only get but sooo many million dollar lawsuits before the organization is BANKRUPT); thus pledging had to be illiminated. Lines had to go underground. The pledging for 18 weeks in broad daylight had to stop. When do the horror stories stop? The whole reason pledging had to be stopped is because it was being taken to the extreme. Young minds were dying. No matter what you say our founders never wanted anyone to lose their life trying to become a part of Alpha Phi Alpha. Our founders never wanted young college men to become paralyzed from the neck down or to have to use the bathroom in a bag outside of their bodies (Lincoln College,PA 1998). I love our fraternity, but do I want to see it crumble because it's facing a multimillion dollar lawsuit because someone was "pledged"-No, I don't. Yes, pledging is a very good way to develop brotherhood, but it's illegal. But in some chapters there is NO brotherhood. I live in the D.C. area, so I meet a lot of bruhs that pledged Beta chapter. One night I'm driving on the campus of Howard U, I see a bruh with a jersey on, so I'm like "Wassup Frat!" dude just nodded his head: I'm on his campus with the SAME letters he has on and he can't even holler at me; he can't holler at a bruh. Most of the bruhs I've encountered while being up North are just plain shady. It's like they don't know how to look at you/me as a brother, because they weren't taught brotherhood. This has gotten very long but the whole point I'm trying to make is it's illegal and there is a reason for it being illegal. In my region (Alpha South) I know chapters where the District Director and Regional VP have threatened to make some chapters inactive just because they were tired of a certain chapter winning a certain event every year. Things are not the same as they were in 1906.

[This message has been edited by Spectrum3_1906 (edited July 11, 2000).]

Spectrum3

I feel the sincerity in your message, but don't ever think that the bruhs up north way are shady. Yeah there's a few; but there's a few in your back yard too. The shady ones are EVERYWHERE. As for that"Alpha" that didn't show you no love; well, he probably didn't pledge!

I didn't loose a bone when/where I pledged, but I went on line in April and crossed in October'80; and in those days,the bigs knew nothing of "Hazing".

I think part of the problem is that the NBPHC allowed the Euro definition of Hazing to be applied to all groups. A better way to say what I mean is that the NBPHC(I hope I got that right)should have protested the application of that law to us based on cultural differences WHEN IT WAS BEING CONSIDERED FOR BECOMING A LAW! Some of the things listed as hazing are and have been throughout all time part of our pledging process. Many of the acts are harmless,and I know people get carried away; but eliminating pledging totally was NOT THE ANSWER.

[7BA94]

To the sister who said when there are family problems keep it in the family. That would be great if people who didn't pledge could be considered family. Yes they are a part of the black community family but no they are not a part of the brotherhood and family that makes up my fraternity. As for change, the change is relatively simply. Nationals is run by graduate chapters. Undergraduate chapters need to simply band together and do what has been done for almost a century. Pledging above ground was much safer because everyone knew who was on line for the most part. Now, you don't know who is on line so it is more susceptible to abuse especially if you don't have strong leadership like we do at my chapter and many other chapters. To the young lady who said it must be an ego thing. I doubt that because I know many women in sororities who are just as adamant as us men. I also agree with the one sister who said if you didn't go through it you can't understand. I don't know if she meant it this way or not, but if you didn't go through you can't understand what it truly means to be an Alpha not even a little bit. I'll finish again by saying the hard part is after you finish pledging, but if you don't want to pledge JOIN THE YMCA.

[Spectrum3_1906]

Let's be real for a minute brother....
No one should be able to just WALK into our fraternity. No one should be able to just go on the internet download an application, pay some money and have a lifetime membership. Yes our founders did "develop" a physical process and yes this does go back to African roots and rites of passage, but this is still the year 2000. Maybe for a brief moment in in December 1906 Alpha Phi Alpha was a perfect fraternity, a perfect brotherhood; but even from it's inception (and before) there were constant struggles. In the year 2000 hazing is ILLEGAL. I do believe there is a fine line between pledging and hazing, but where does the line get drawn? The law of the land will never understand the difference between pledging and hazing (Alpha Phi Alpha is not "allowed" to see the difference between pledging and hazing, because you can only get but sooo many million dollar lawsuits before the organization is BANKRUPT); thus pledging had to be illiminated. Lines had to go underground. The pledging for 18 weeks in broad daylight had to stop. When do the horror stories stop? The whole reason pledging had to be stopped is because it was being taken to the extreme. Young minds were dying. No matter what you say our founders never wanted anyone to lose their life trying to become a part of Alpha Phi Alpha. Our founders never wanted young college men to become paralyzed from the neck down or to have to use the bathroom in a bag outside of their bodies (Lincoln College,PA 1998). I love our fraternity, but do I want to see it crumble because it's facing a multimillion dollar lawsuit because someone was "pledged"-No, I don't. Yes, pledging is a very good way to develop brotherhood, but it's illegal. But in some chapters there is NO brotherhood. I live in the D.C. area, so I meet a lot of bruhs that pledged Beta chapter. One night I'm driving on the campus of Howard U, I see a bruh with a jersey on, so I'm like "Wassup Frat!" dude just nodded his head: I'm on his campus with the SAME letters he has on and he can't even holler at me; he can't holler at a bruh. Most of the bruhs I've encountered while being up North are just plain shady. It's like they don't know how to look at you/me as a brother, because they weren't taught brotherhood. This has gotten very long but the whole point I'm trying to make is it's illegal and there is a reason for it being illegal. In my region (Alpha South) I know chapters where the District Director and Regional VP have threatened to make some chapters inactive just because they were tired of a certain chapter winning a certain event every year. Things are not the same as they were in 1906.

[This message has been edited by Spectrum3_1906 (edited July 11, 2000).]

[songstress21]

Hmmmmmmmm....If pledging above ground was, "so much safer", why did a young man DIE at Morehouse college trying to get into your frat???

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by songstress21:
Hmmmmmmmm....If pledging above ground was, "so much safer", why did a young man DIE at Morehouse college trying to get into your frat???

I'm just curious about what you know about my Frat. Are you in a Frat? Which one and when did you "cross"?



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