Recs being dropped for PNMs?

[carnation]

Hey, let's just open up all our groups to everyone. Sight unseen, even. Bad reps. Terrible grades. Drama kings and queens.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

I asked one of our former national officers about this. This lady is very involved in the fraternal Capitol Hill efforts.
Being recommended for membership by a current member is a vital part of fraternal organizations legally remaining single sex groups.
That's what she told me. Phi Mu has gotten around this by their national prez just recommended everybody sight unseen.
NPC seems to be pushing for this as a body.
It'll be interesting to see how they get around this little requirement....or maybe they just want to open every group up to everybody?

Is there any NPC group currently in violation of the bolded above?

[naraht]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

I asked one of our former national officers about this. This lady is very involved in the fraternal Capitol Hill efforts.
Being recommended for membership by a current member is a vital part of fraternal organizations legally remaining single sex groups.
That's what she told me. Phi Mu has gotten around this by their national prez just recommended everybody sight unseen.
NPC seems to be pushing for this as a body.
It'll be interesting to see how they get around this little requirement....or maybe they just want to open every group up to everybody?

I've got a *really* hard time imagining the statement in Bold being true. The fraternities of the NIC, Kappa Beta Gamma and (of both genders) the NPHC and NALFO seem to be in no threat of losing their Title IX status.

[PGD-GRAD]

I read all these with interest. My wife was—in the late 70’s and 80’s—an “area rec sister” (MY TERMINOLOGY) for her sorority. ANY chapter nationally that wanted info on a rushee contacted her from a huge list of such alums, and she would do her best to check alumnae rolls (in our adjacent 8 or 10 county area) and locate sisters who lived in those sometimes rural areas to gather information (a rec) on the girl in question. Once in a while it was even a teacher or—the mother lode—a guidance counselor! (I know now and then she’d have to use a “non-sister” teacher or counselor and indicated that on the form or in a phone call.)

So my question—I know an important part of that was academics. And occasionally she would be able to shed some light on a young lady with less-than-stellar grades who might have had a year-long illness or perhaps been in an accident.
NOW, will sororities still get HS grade information from universities or—if not—will this new lack of submitted recommendations throw that in the Panhellenic dust bin as well? And will groups just receive a “Yes, she’s eligible” which could range anywhere from a 2.75 to a 4.00 +?

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by JonInKC

"Hey, am I in the right place? I'm here to sign up for the Sigma thingy. I'm sorry I'm so tired, I stayed up all night doing acid."

Originally Posted by carnation

"Is this where we get hazed? I heard that the last 2 classes got hazed really hard! I saw the videos everywhere!"

Well played - but oh, Good Grief!

Originally Posted by PGD-GRAD

I read all these with interest. My wife was—in the late 70’s and 80’s—an “area rec sister” (MY TERMINOLOGY) for her sorority. ANY chapter nationally that wanted info on a rushee contacted her from a huge list of such alums, and she would do her best to check alumnae rolls (in our adjacent 8 or 10 county area) and locate sisters who lived in those sometimes rural areas to gather information (a rec) on the girl in question. Once in a while it was even a teacher or—the mother lode—a guidance counselor! (I know now and then she’d have to use a “non-sister” teacher or counselor and indicated that on the form or in a phone call.)

So my question—I know an important part of that was academics. And occasionally she would be able to shed some light on a young lady with less-than-stellar grades who might have had a year-long illness or perhaps been in an accident.
NOW, will sororities still get HS grade information from universities or—if not—will this new lack of submitted recommendations throw that in the Panhellenic dust bin as well? And will groups just receive a “Yes, she’s eligible” which could range anywhere from a 2.75 to a 4.00 +?

THIS!!

Please thank your wife for taking on such a demanding position!

[Phi in Dubai!]

Kappa Alpha Theta is now allowing anyone to write a letter of recommendation for a PNM.

https://www.kappaalphatheta.org/members/introduce-pnm

[carnation]

That will go over well. Not. Sure, I'll trust this person who has no stake in my organization to put their 2 cents in.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Phi in Dubai!

Kappa Alpha Theta is now allowing anyone to write a letter of recommendation for a PNM.

https://www.kappaalphatheta.org/members/introduce-pnm

Originally Posted by carnation

That will go over well. Not. Sure, I'll trust this person who has no stake in my organization to put their 2 cents in.

In related university student news, the Illinois legislature is proposing that its public universities drop entrance exam requirements. Just another great reason to allow anyone attending an Illinois public university campus to join a fraternal greek organization

[carnation]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

In related university student news, the Illinois legislature is proposing that its public universities drop entrance exam requirements. Just another great reason to allow anyone attending an Illinois public university campus to join a fraternal greek organization

I will be teaching college classes part-time again in the fall. I would so love to have educationally unqualified people in my classes, taking up space that people who will actually apply themselves should be in. After a zillion years in education, I can tell you that a lot of people didn't get the grades or scores to get into college because they refused to apply themselves, and if they get in they will still not apply themselves.

[DaffyKD]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

In related university student news, the Illinois legislature is proposing that its public universities drop entrance exam requirements. Just another great reason to allow anyone attending an Illinois public university campus to join a fraternal greek organization

Not sure if it will be permanent or has to do with COVID, but both the University of California system and the California State University system have dropped the admission testing for those applying this year. They have had record number of applications this go around because those who don't test well felt free to apply. They are using grade basis and looking at extracurriculars.

DaffyKD

[carnation]

The problem with that is that many schools (I taught in some in the past) pressure their teachers heavily to hand out A's like candy. The students look like Einstein on paper! Then they get to college...

[JonInKC]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

In related university student news, the Illinois legislature is proposing that its public universities drop entrance exam requirements. Just another great reason to allow anyone attending an Illinois public university campus to join a fraternal greek organization

It's ABLEIST to not allow people into college just because they won't be able to pass the classes! I can't even with you right now. I'm literally shaking.

[Lupine]

Originally Posted by JonInKC

It's ABLEIST to not allow people into college just because they won't be able to pass the classes! I can't even with you right now. I'm literally shaking.

I'm a private admissions counselor in a group practice. This year, nearly 60% of our students applied to college without test scores. We did not see unexpected results. Top students with large numbers of AP and/or IB courses with high grades, strong extracurricular activities, and (presumably) strong recommendations still got into highly selective colleges. Good students who tossed applications at highly selective colleges didn't get admitted. We have lots of students who apply to the University of California campuses. That system was test blind this year via a court order. Again, we didn't see unexpected results.

Most colleges that are test blind (will not look at scores) or test-optional (will consider if submitted) will still look at AP/IB scores. They also look at awards and recognitions from national and regional competitions, like the National Latin Exam, American Mathematics Exam, National History Day, Science Fairs, and so on.

We tell our students that when you apply test-optional, that just means that all other parts of your application get more scrutiny.

Based on working with hundreds of college applicants, just about anyone willing to spend $2500-$4000 on individual test prep can legitimately raise an ACT score from 23 to 30 or higher. Gains on the SAT are harder, especially for applicants without strong reading skills and vocabulary. We don't do test prep, but we keep in touch with folks who do a good job, and we see what money and time can buy. We also know the process that needs to be followed at high schools in our area to qualify and get approved for extended time. Many lower-income students who ought to qualify for extended time based on ADD or other learning disabilities never get that because they don't know to ask and their guidance counselors have huge caseloads.

I'm unconvinced that the SAT or ACT adds a lot of value, especially since money can (and does) buy prep that can achieve just about any desired score. There are cram schools in some cities where a few weeks of prep results in more than half the students earning 1500 or higher on the SAT.

What we did see this year is that less selective colleges (and most of the colleges in America are less selective) are under-enrolled for this fall and that hundreds are still accepting applicants for fall admissions. I made inquiries two weeks ago for a student with a radical change of plan, and seven of the nine less selective colleges I checked were still quietly accepting applications for engineering, though only three were on the space available list published by NACAC.

[Sister Havana]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

In related university student news, the Illinois legislature is proposing that its public universities drop entrance exam requirements. Just another great reason to allow anyone attending an Illinois public university campus to join a fraternal greek organization

Just to clarify, a lot of Illinois universities (including U of I) are currently going test-optional temporarily due to Covid. It sounds like this bill would make that permanent. Applicants can still submit ACT or SAT scores if they want to, but they aren't required to. All other admission criteria will still apply. Here's some more information about the proposed bill, and here is a Test-Optional FAQ from UIC, as a rrepresentative sample.

ETA: Several Illinois schools already were test-optional pre-Covid, including Knox, DePaul, SIU, WIU, Monmouth, and University of Chicago.

[shadokat]

What's the difference if you drop entrance exam requirements, or you have requirements and then admit 90% of the people anyways? At least they're a little transparent about it. PA State Schools have been admitting anything with a pulse, outside of West Chester, for ages. It's sad.

Originally Posted by Cheerio

In related university student news, the Illinois legislature is proposing that its public universities drop entrance exam requirements. Just another great reason to allow anyone attending an Illinois public university campus to join a fraternal greek organization