Phi Mu Ending the Use Of Hand Signs

[PersistentDST]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

What does gang culture have to do with it?

That’s my question. The appropriation discussion is about the NPHC, so I’m not sure what gangs has to do with it.

Originally Posted by APhi2KD

APhi’s Ivy Leaf, DG’s salute, GPhiB Crescent, and PiPhi’s wings are 4 that aren’t the same. I hope they stay.

Some of them (like the quatrefoil) are ridiculous, as most girls can’t do them! And soooo many look alike.

Ahhhhh...I forgot about the Alpha Phi Ivy. That is often a topic of conversation. Every year it’s “discovered” by someone and then bidday pictures make the rounds on the social media pages, because of the similarity to AKA. Zeta Phi Beta and Phi Beta Sigma also throw wings as well, but for Doves. However, I can’t say I’ve seen any comments about Pi Phi.

[FSUZeta]

Where does it all stop? When does it all stop? Who's to say that the first NPC/IFC chapters to do hand signs, did not do it out of admiration of the NPHC hand signs? Might Alpha Phi, which was founded before AKA decide that AKA can no longer use ivy? Could Sigma Kappa, which was founded before Zeta Phi Beta and Phi Beta Sigma, demand that the these two organizations cease and desist using the dove? After the persistence and camaraderie displayed by Greek organizations to keep our organizations single-sex and stopping discrimination against Greek members (Harvard) are we just going to cannibalize ourselves
?

As to step shows, I think it was Sen who once explained the significance of stepping to the NPHC. Has this been explained on all campuses that have NPC and IFC chapters? I would hope that if all were educated, NPC and IFC would refrain from stepping or hosting step show competitions. But I think the path is education, not decimation.

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

Where does it all stop? When does it all stop? Who's to say that the first NPC/IFC chapters to do hand signs, did not do it out of admiration of the NPHC hand signs? Might Alpha Phi, which was founded before AKA decide that AKA can no longer use ivy? Could Sigma Kappa, which was founded before Zeta Phi Beta and Phi Beta Sigma, demand that the these two organizations cease and desist using the dove? After the persistence and camaraderie displayed by Greek organizations to keep our organizations single-sex and stopping discrimination against Greek members (Harvard) are we just going to cannibalize ourselves
?

As to step shows, I think it was Sen who once explained the significance of stepping to the NPHC. Has this been explained on all campuses that have NPC and IFC chapters? I would hope that if all were educated, NPC and IFC would refrain from stepping or hosting step show competitions. But I think the path is education, not decimation.

Why isn't a resistance to cultural apporpriation just plain intrinsic?

I love watching haka. I do not do haka simply because it reminds me of stepping.

I love watching dabke. I do not do dabke simply because it reminds me of strolling.

*We* are not cannibalizing ourselves. NPHC organizations are not on the menu.
NPHC members have been educating people on GC for twenty years. At some point you need to take the education back to your own organizations.

Phi Mu is doing what they feel is correct. It's bizarre that such a course correction is the hill some of you are choosing to die on.

My intern many years ago was an Auburn Phi Mu. We discussed Greek life openly and honestly. She said her chapter would never admit a black girl (not that there were that many rushing). I asked why. She said because she knew they'd be miserable. In her mind, the "liberal" wing of the house was saving the black girls from the racist wing of the house. In fact, she was just as complicit because the outcome was the same. I think she knows that now, in her maturity and wisdom which comes with age.

In the decade or so since this moment, maybe things got better on that campus and in that house. As white people awaken to the many, many facets of racism that they've been complicit in, they're taking a lot of microsteps that, to some, seem like over-correction. In reality, it's just the conversations you all should have been listening to years ago.

There is such a thing as retrospective justice, when a group of people realize that a wrong which has occured is so egregious that it impacts a society itself. There will be many small corrections leading up to major policy changes. You grab the low-hanging fruit and then you keep climbing.

[andthen]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

My intern many years ago was an Auburn Phi Mu. We discussed Greek life openly and honestly. She said her chapter would never admit a black girl (not that there were that many rushing). I asked why. She said because she knew they'd be miserable. In her mind, the "liberal" wing of the house was saving the black girls from the racist wing of the house. In fact, she was just as complicit because the outcome was the same. I think she knows that now, in her maturity and wisdom which comes with age.

In the decade or so since this moment, maybe things got better on that campus and in that house. As white people awaken to the many, many facets of racism that they've been complicit in, they're taking a lot of microsteps that, to some, seem like over-correction. In reality, it's just the conversations you all should have been listening to years ago.

There is such a thing as retrospective justice, when a group of people realize that a wrong which has occured is so egregious that it impacts a society itself. There will be many small corrections leading up to major policy changes. You grab the low-hanging fruit and then you keep climbing.

The part in bold is so spot on!! And I think people need to have a bit more awareness that even with good intention, you still very well maybe contributing to the problem.

And I agree with you as well, sometimes small increments of change can ultimately result in a larger impact.

[carnation]

Several black women have pledged NPCs at Auburn since that time but it seems that most prefer NPHCs. The same goes at Arkansas; I'm told that only 2.5% of the undergrad population is black women and that most of those prefer to pledge the NPHCs.

It's very frustrating to be totally open to pledging women of color (and even being pressured to do so by outside sources) when there really aren't that many who are interested, due to their family preferences.

[PersistentDST]

Originally Posted by carnation

Several black women have pledged NPCs at Auburn since that time but it seems that most prefer NPHCs. The same goes at Arkansas; I'm told that only 2.5% of the undergrad population is black women and that most of those prefer to pledge the NPHCs.

It's very frustrating to be totally open to pledging women of color (and even being pressured to do so by outside sources) when there really aren't that many who are interested, due to their family preferences.

It should not be frustrating at all, it should be the goal. It shouldn’t make a difference if it’s 1,500 Black girls that sign up for recruitment or 25. The goal should be to make those 25 feel comfortable, supported and allow them the same positive experience as any other young lady in the NPC. The statistics aren’t relevant. It’s about making the NPC a safe place for any qualified young woman who actually want to be there.

Most of the 2.5% won’t be joining ANY sorority for a million different reasons. Even if they they wanted to, we will never know, so let’s focus on the many young ladies who DO.

[PersistentDST]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

Where does it all stop? When does it all stop? Who's to say that the first NPC/IFC chapters to do hand signs, did not do it out of admiration of the NPHC hand signs? Might Alpha Phi, which was founded before AKA decide that AKA can no longer use ivy? Could Sigma Kappa, which was founded before Zeta Phi Beta and Phi Beta Sigma, demand that the these two organizations cease and desist using the dove? After the persistence and camaraderie displayed by Greek organizations to keep our organizations single-sex and stopping discrimination against Greek members (Harvard) are we just going to cannibalize ourselves
?

As to step shows, I think it was Sen who once explained the significance of stepping to the NPHC. Has this been explained on all campuses that have NPC and IFC chapters? I would hope that if all were educated, NPC and IFC would refrain from stepping or hosting step show competitions. But I think the path is education, not decimation.

I think those of us who post on GC are vastly different in knowledge than those who don’t. I barely knew anything about the NPC while I was in college. I had classes with individual girls and they were nice, but I knew nothing about recruitment, events, philanthropies or even that there were alumnae chapters until I logged in here. With that benefit of knowledge, I see things differently because I am informed.

The general population of membership in all the councils are not having these conversations and still do not know much about each other. With the lack of interaction and communication, something can go from being a coincidence or an honest mistake, to being perceived as appropriation or disrespect. A person that knows nothing about the NPC, has never seen nor interacted with an Alpha Phi is going to perceive the sign to be something that was stolen, because they see AKA’s of all ages throw the sign regularly.

The NPHC organizations have been around for 114 years and we have plenty of “firsts.” The justification that anyone could decide what we do based on them being founded first is a bit troubling. Especially not from organizations who don’t have any type of official relationship with ours.

[AZTheta]

Frankly this is NOT any hill on which I'm going to die. Never liked any hand signs, but do love the DG anchor. That is adorable. Yes I am a DG fan and love all things anchor-related. I am a kite flyer who cherishes my anchor mates.

While I'm ranting, I particularly dislike the two Theta hand signs that our HQ "banned" or "strongly discouraged" (if memory serves and I am disinclined to search for the supporting documents at the present time because it's 111,000,000 degrees outside with no relief in sight for another month or two). You know which ones if you've been around more than a little while. Don't make me 'splain it to you guys.

Thank you, PersistentDST and Sen, for your well-reasoned points.

[Titchou]

And you know I will always anchor your kite!

[OldFLDDD]

Tri Delta has had their hand sign since I pledged in the late 80s. I sure hope they don’t have to give theirs up.

[carnation]

They were using it in the early seventies! I remember them leaning out the windows during rush--3 girls would lean out of each window and make the delta sign.

[honeychile]

I was headed to Florida with friends when I saw a car with an ADPi bumper sticker on it. I told the driver to pull up alongside the car, and at about 80 mph, did my half of the diamond to the car full of ADPi sisters. Both cars were full of diamonds, laughing and horn blowing - it was a GREAT moment!

[SWTXBelle]

I think the rise of social media has made them more widespread (or, it could just be that now we all see them in posts). I think our hand crescent looks like C is for cookie if reversed in a photo!

[shadokat]

I hope nobody is so offended that our women stick their finger on the forehead like a unicorn horn. Is it silly lookin? Yep! Offensive? I don't think so.

[Dionysus]

I haven't logged into GC in ages...and I see Karens saying that the usage of hand signs among fraternities and sororities, reminds them of gang culture. LOL

Good to see GC hasn't changed much