Something needs to change

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Eta: And if for some reason the costs are not on the website or somewhere easily accessible, get on the horn to the Greek life office and ask. BEFORE rush week.

The costs are published on the Ole Miss web site well in advance. It is given as a range, and no costs are listed specifically per chapter. Why? Because some chapters choose to report only the bare minimum, without disclosing additional costs that are required during the year. Some costs, like formals, event T shirts, and pictures are all considered optional in some chapters, not in others.

From the Ole Miss Panhellenic FAQ:

Why is it so expensive to join a sorority? Where is the money going?

Sororities have provided their financial obligations in ranges. Please note the following: These are only ranges and may not include all associated costs for each sorority. Dues are subject to change. As prospective members, students need to talk with active members during recruitment events to learn more, especially when payments are due following Bid Day.

In House Member Dues Per Semester $2,900-$4,300
Out of House Member Dues Per Semester $1,550-$2,200
New Member Dues: Fall Semester $1,240-$2,500
New Member Dues: Spring Semester $1,530-$2,200

[NerdyGreek]

Originally Posted by thetalady

Sororities have provided their financial obligations in ranges. Please note the following: These are only ranges and may not include all associated costs for each sorority. Dues are subject to change. As prospective members, students need to talk with active members during recruitment events to learn more, especially when payments are due following Bid Day.

One of the issues is that they don't fully disclose costs during recruitment. PNMs are prohibited from talking to members outside of rush, and they're not getting the information during the parties either.

I felt a connection to my sorority when I pledged. While I wasn't best friends with all of my sisters (and downright despised one of them), I was close with many, many of them. These are women that I still see and consider my friends. My daughter doesn't see those same bonds of sisterhood among even the upperclassmen. One of the sisters told her she loves hanging out at the house because she's always meeting new sisters she hasn't met before, which she didn't think sounded like such a good thing. How can you consider it a sisterhood when you haven't even met everyone?!

Maybe the issue is mega chapters that are bigger than a lot of high school graduating classes. I found "my people" in my graduating class, but despite sharing a lot of common experiences, I feel absolutely no connection to all the other graduates of my high school the same year. It starts to feel like random groups of people put together.

[Sciencewoman]

I am a firm believer in publishing transparent costs ahead of time -- in a PNM guidebook, on the campus Panhellenic website, etc. No one benefits if a new member drops because they can't afford the fees. It's also in everyone's best interest to be fairly close/competitive with costs.

I'm not sure it's all RFM or variable quota -- I think there is a generational issue with seeing fabulous over-done recruitment videos and having fairy tale expectations, and tent talk that's gone beyond the tent to website rankings and vitriol. Those weren't around when I was in school. I agree that instead of everyone finding their niche/peeps, there does seem to be a more widespread idealization of wanting the "popular, top tier group." Because if you're not that, your chapter is ripe for getting scorned online. And PNMs check that out. That's so sad.

My husband is a teacher and I am a professor and we have talked about the general air of "cater to me" that seems commonplace now. One of our international council members is the Dean of Students at Ole Miss; she gave an excellent talk at our March facilities conference about today's student and the need to develop "grit." AGDee heard the same talk at Alpha Gamma Delta's convention this summer.

[Sciencewoman]

I think there are a lot of people asking the "is it worth it?" question. College is expensive, student loans are a burden, and your question is one I'm hearing more often.

In my experience, it is absolutely worth it. But you have to be in it for a while before you feel and understand the true worth.

[AZTheta]

^^^ thanks!

[IndianaSigKap]

NerdyGreek, I am truly sad that your daughter hasn't found "her people" yet in her chapter.

I attended college on a campus that did not use RFM until the possibly 2008 or so and it was not good prior to that. My grand(little)daughter in my chapter decided to be a recruitment counselor one year because all of our recruitment workshops were held at the same time as another one of her campus groups rehearsed. She called me (even though she wasn't supposed to) beside herself because two of her PMNs had gone to two preference at chapters who notoriously over invited women to preference. These chapters would only take 35 women pledge classes but yet our school allowed them to invite 350 women to reference. In both of these cases, she did not see either PNM fitting into those chapters and had a sinking feeling she would miss our Bid Night because she would be consoling those crushed PNMs. And she was right. She ended up spending most of the night consoling not only those two but two more women who did not match at pref because they were too far down on both chapters' bid lists. This was commonplace at my campus prior to RFM. After RFM, those women have chapters who really wanted them in their chapter and not just wanted them there to fill up a room to look more popular. With RFM, those two women would have been made quota additions to one of the two chapters they attended. I know you may not see a whole lot of upside with RFM right now, but I lived it and I can tell you RMF works. There is no guarantee that your daughter would have bonded with any of the other chapters better than the one she joined. Strong recruiting groups have a way of making every PNM feel special.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

NerdyGreek, I am truly sad that your daughter hasn't found "her people" yet in her chapter.

I attended college on a campus that did not use RFM until the possibly 2008 or so and it was not good prior to that. My grand(little)daughter in my chapter decided to be a recruitment counselor one year because all of our recruitment workshops were held at the same time as another one of her campus groups rehearsed. She called me (even though she wasn't supposed to) beside herself because two of her PMNs had gone to two preference at chapters who notoriously over invited women to preference. These chapters would only take 35 women pledge classes but yet our school allowed them to invite 350 women to reference. In both of these cases, she did not see either PNM fitting into those chapters and had a sinking feeling she would miss our Bid Night because she would be consoling those crushed PNMs. And she was right. She ended up spending most of the night consoling not only those two but two more women who did not match at pref because they were too far down on both chapters' bid lists. This was commonplace at my campus prior to RFM. After RFM, those women have chapters who really wanted them in their chapter and not just wanted them there to fill up a room to look more popular. With RFM, those two women would have been made quota additions to one of the two chapters they attended. I know you may not see a whole lot of upside with RFM right now, but I lived it and I can tell you RMF works. There is no guarantee that your daughter would have bonded with any of the other chapters better than the one she joined. Strong recruiting groups have a way of making every PNM feel special.

Well said.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by NerdyGreek

Then you have situations like one of D's friends who was dropped by all the houses except ABC because her sister was an ABC at the school. No one asked her if she liked her sister and wanted to be in the same sorority with her. (The answer would have been "no.") It's only the second year of using this combo and I've got to question whether it's the right thing to be doing. I feel like the effort to even house sizes and maximize the number of bids given out is creating artificial groupings of girls who have surviving the process as the sole thing they have in common.

This was happening far before RFM came out. Some sororities thought, "Why waste our time on a girl whom we figure is pledging her sister's group?"

[Titchou]

Another issue is that PNMs tend to think they have control during recruitment.The bottom line is that your choices are limited by the chapters themselves. They invite the PNM; The PNM does not select the chapters they want to visit. Seriously, PNMs really need to understand this. You cannot drop a group. They drop you. So be happy to receive whatever invitations you receive and go to the party with a smile on your face. I don't mean to be harsh, but it's reality. If you'd rather not be Greek than join any of the choices you have, drop out.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Another issue is that PNMs tend to think they have control during recruitment.The bottom line is that your choices are limited by the chapters themselves. They invite the PNM; The PNM does not select the chapters they want to visit. Seriously, PNMs really need to understand this. You cannot drop a group. They drop you. So be happy to receive whatever invitations you receive and go to the party with a smile on your face. I don't mean to be harsh, but it's reality. If you'd rather not be Greek than join any of the choices you have, drop out.

I made a thread about this awhile back.

Selection is not as mutual as we all claim it to be.

It is more mutual in the bid matching phase, but for the majority of recruitment, the balance of power is tilted mostly in the chapter's favor.

They're the ones doing 90% of the choosing here.

The PNM gets what she gets, for the most part.

We should probably stop calling it that.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by NerdyGreek

When recruitment ends and the advice freely being given out is, "Nobody likes their house at first; you'll learn to like it" I feel like something has to change.

My daughter is contemplating de-pledging. So are many of her friends. She's talked to about a dozen girls she was friends with going into rush. Two got into sororities they actually wanted. The other ~10 got bids for houses they didn't like. We're not talking 2nd choices; we're talking houses that were low on the pref lists after the first two rounds. One of her friends has to de-pledge because she got a bid for one of the most expensive sororities - and she can't afford it. (It's over $1000/year more than the one my daughter is in.)

I blame variable quota and RFM. Girls are dropped left and right early on, and are forbidden from dropping houses (they can only rank) which is how you end up with girls in houses they can't afford. Then you have situations like one of D's friends who was dropped by all the houses except ABC because her sister was an ABC at the school. No one asked her if she liked her sister and wanted to be in the same sorority with her. (The answer would have been "no.") It's only the second year of using this combo and I've got to question whether it's the right thing to be doing. I feel like the effort to even house sizes and maximize the number of bids given out is creating artificial groupings of girls who have surviving the process as the sole thing they have in common.

I'm wondering if anyone else involved with a school that uses variable quota and RFM has seen problems with retention?

Nerdy Greek, I know exactly what campus you are talking about. Bid day was 1 short week ago. ONE FRIGGING WEEK.

If you, your daughter or her friends are already questioning the chapter that she pledged, I don't even know what to say. It takes longer than that to get to know people in a chapter of 400 girls. It takes longer than that to develop friendships and bonds. She doesn't even know their names yet and she doesn't like them or thinks they have nothing in common with her? Did these girls think closeness just happened magically?

Your daughter had choices to make. In the end after Pref, she had the choice to accept a bid and sign the MRABA, knowing the chapters that wanted her or not sign it. Now her choice is this:

1. quit and remain without a sorority experience at her current University. She can always transfer to another University and try again, right?

2. work to make friends in her chapter and enjoy the experience.

Don't even start asking about rushing again next year as a sophomore who quit her sorority. Ain't gonna happen on this campus. If she is pining for a chapter that she did not get a bid from, that is a real shame because she is turning her back on the chapter that wanted her.

[TriDeltaSallie]

I think what surprises me the most about this thread is that young women are going through recruitment without understanding the costs on that particular campus. How is that not public knowledge? If money is a potential issue and the desire to be Greek is strong, I would think that would be part of the decision-making process in choosing a college/university.

[Sororitysock]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

I think what surprises me the most about this thread is that young women are going through recruitment without understanding the costs on that particular campus. How is that not public knowledge? If money is a potential issue and the desire to be Greek is strong, I would think that would be part of the decision-making process in choosing a college/university.

It is public. Like with GPA requirements, Ole Miss details not only the cost range of sorority membership, but also the meal plan situation in the FAQs on their recruitment site. It was up there long before the semester began: http://panhellenic.olemiss.edu/faq-b-2/

Perhaps if these young women would stop wasting their time complaining and actually try to get to know some of the 400 or so other members of their chapter, they would realize that they actually do have things in common with them.

*Why do I get the feeling mom hasn't had any sorority involvement since her college years?

[Titchou]

Yes,KSU,you started a great thread about this a while back. Too bad most PNMs don't read it or think it doesn't apply to them.

[FSUZeta]

Many of us have said in other threads that we really didn't "feel it" until we lived in the house-for me it was my sophomore year.

I apologize if I sound harsh ( I am trying to be realistic), but it is the rare freshman PNM who de-pledges and re-rushes to a "higher" tier sorority the next year.