rushing undercover?!

[josh8o]

wow, lots of replies...
the pre-rush rules here are that no freshmen are allowed at fraternity parties...and also if they are drinking its not good either. the undercover girls are there to get fraternities in trouble with IFC.
the undercover PNM's for rush are there for reasons i can only imagine...and dont want to think about. at sdsu everyone breaks the rules. most houses dont even know the rules. its not so much that we want to drink at rush, but it's handing out a bid early, or having events that are not allowed. the greek life advisor hasn't dont one thing since i have been greek to help out the well being of fraternities. all he does is try to hurt everyone. this is just another addition to the long list of things he does to kill greek life. there is an assistant greek life advisor who is really cool and works hard to promote greek life. when we were in trouble he tried hard to help us fix the situation.

[Eupolis]

Originally posted by josh8o
... at sdsu everyone breaks the rules. most houses dont even know the rules. its not so much that we want to drink at rush, but it's handing out a bid early, or having events that are not allowed. the greek life advisor hasn't dont one thing since i have been greek to help out the well being of fraternities. all he does is try to hurt everyone. this is just another addition to the long list of things he does to kill greek life. there is an assistant greek life advisor who is really cool and works hard to promote greek life. when we were in trouble he tried hard to help us fix the situation.

It helps to know that, because while I don't think houses should be breaking the rules, it tells me something about some of the possible alternatives the greek advisor might have chosen. For example, if most of the houses really don't know what the rules are, then I think there needs to be an information campaign before potentially harsh enforcement of the rules begins. It would make it a lot more fair, it would have the potential of genuinely improving things, and in all it would be the supportive way to go about it. The unsupportive way is just to start beating people down.

Your chapter or IFC should consider proposing that there be (1) information sessions that everyone can attend (perhaps one for each house or perhaps divided at least for groups of houses, so that people can ask questions) and (2) a well-written and organized handbook for all fraternity members that does more than just explain the rules. This sort of thing should say not only what you can't do, but what you can do within the rules, and how you might practically go about it.

Good luck to you.

[josh8o]

Eupolis:
that is exactly what i wanted to do with rush this year.... i ran for IFC assistant rush chair because i wanted to change a lot of things. the assistant rush chair was never picked, but i ended up helping with rush by being present at freshmen orientation to represent IFC. anyway, since my house is not allowed to participate in IFC rush this year i was not able to continue helping with rush (bull shit, bull shit, bull shit).
I know exactly what you are saying...there is so much i want to change about rush at sdsu. it needs a complete overhaul.

[phisigduchesscv]

Josh,

From a fellow CSU student and Greek I say don't look at it as your greek advisor is being a jerk but that he is trying to meet standards that the CSU Chancellors office has set down for the CSU's. In the last few years there have been a number of alcohol related accidents and deaths in the CSU system - many involving Greeks. (One at SDSU that involved underage drinking, a fraternity, and the underage drinker that ended up in the hospital being the son of a Dean or Chair at the school.) Anyway, last year the CSU Trustees and Chancellor Reed made a decision to address the issue of the drinking among college students at the CSU's. All CSU's must address the issue of college students and drinking - legally or underage - or face repercussions from the CSU Chancellors Office.

I understand about getting frustrated with your Greek Advisor and the way he's acting but realize he may be just doing what he has been asked/told to by the Vice President of Student Life and/or the Chancellors Office. Remember that at 47,000 plus students, SDSU is the largest in the CSU System and as such is viewed as setting examples to the other CSU's.

If the Advisor is so bad, then every Greek at SDSU needs to go to the Vice President of Student Life and speak to him about it. If only one or two go then it doesn't do any good.

[apacheksc21]

I have heard of si,ilar crap here in New Hampshire. It's because of IFC/Pan...
The BYOB rule is stupid. All the other parts serve beer, but the crack down on greeks.

[Pike4Life]

Actually I do believe that most if not all NIC and NPC groups DO NOT ALLOW COMMON SOURCES OF ALCOHOL AT SPONSORED/HOSTED FUNCTIONS.

You need to check with your inter/national headquarters and find out about your organization's risk management/risk awareness programs and policies. I do believe that like 90% of the NIC and NPC groups have OUTLAWED kegs and other common sources of alcohol (such as hunch punch). BYOB is the ONLY way that it is legal for a fraternity to sponsor a party, and ID's must still be checked, and in most cases, you still have to monitor how much each person brings in and is alowed to drink during the course of the party.

And it is even more illegal for a chapter to use "chapter funds" to purchase alcohol for a function with the intent to distribute - and this includes "passing the hat" or members pooling money together to purchase alcohol.

Everyone on this board complains that Greeks are sterotyped as partiers, binge drinkers and swimming in alcohol...and then complain because you can't have a keg party or gripe that the Greek Advisor is making you abide by the risk management/awareness and alcohol rules and regulations.

Sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too...if you are committed to your fraternity or sorority, then you won't participate in or tolerate actions that go against your organization's established rules and regulations. Most Greek Advisors are out there to help your organization stay on the legal and acceptable side of things...if you break rules, you pay the price (and reinforce those negative sterotypes of Greeks). Claiming ignorance is not an excuse to breaking the law.

And let's not even open the can of worms regarding "off campus" or "unofficial" houses where several members may live. That mythological loophole has been shot down in court and chapters have been held liable for what happens at these "unofficial" locations.

You can have tons of fun, rewarding and memoriable times as a Greek in today's world by abiding by the established rules and regulations...both with and without alcohol. If the only reason you're in a fraternity is to drink beer and chase girls, then you've missed the boat my friend.

[kleptobyte]

Originally posted by justamom
If this isn't a form of entrapment, I don't know what is. I know this town did something similar for underage kids going to movies rated R, but it was an expose'. What do they expect? Do they want you to card everyone that walks through your door?
I agree there is a real problem with underage drinking.
This problem can cause devastaion on so many levels. Still, if this was 20 years ago, 90% of the problem would be taken care of since your INITIAL concern would be those 17 year old Freshmen, not kids who by all other standards are adults.

If it's common practice for frats to provide alcohol to minors and the girls aren't police, it's not entrapment. Stop giving booze to teenagers and you won't have a problem. It's illegal and you should get caught for it.

[AEPhiSierra]

Forget about entrapment, if your school administration is actually using underage people to "catch you in the act" they are probably breaking the law themselves. If they are not a law enforcement agency its probably very illegal for them to send someone under 21 to obtain alcohol at a party, even if the person they send doesn't plan on consuming it. The minute the undercover freshmen has a beer in their hands they are breaking the law themselves and from a legal standpoint I don't think they can be excused by saying "the greek advisor wanted me to catch fraternities serving underage people"

[adpiucf]

This is a very old thread that we have resurrected, but here is my 2 cents.

Chapter education is key, but if that has failed and a number of violations are suspected and/or reported, than something bigger must happen to help the members understand that certain activities will have consequences.

Checking in to make sure chapters are following university, local and federal laws is not illegal. How would this be any different from someone mystery shopping a store to make sure their POP displays are set up properly?

Cops routinely send minors into liquor stores to buy cigarettes and alcohol. If the merchant sells to the minor, they get busted. In this case, the university admin/Greek adviser are serving as enforcers.

[Drunkie679]

i think that is really wrong in some many wyas to go under cover to check someone doing...My friend got kicked out of rush my freshmen year because she went to a party and wasn't even drinking. I think some of these rules are way to intense. Granted...if you are an legit organization you should worry, but still, Certain things could be taken the wrong way.