GAYS IN YOUR SORORITY/FRATERNITY?

[SilverTurtle]

Mikki-
Let me just say that I'm glad Fred no longer posts here after the question you just asked!!

And what would I (or the chapter) do? Nothing.. unless they were casting spells on members or something psycho. Of course, if they were spells to heal sickness or other good things, then what would you do? Interesting.

Seriously, though, I do think that would make some people uncomfortable. However, knowing the members of my chapter + the kind of people they are, they wouldn't kick them out or treat them badly. I do think some members would request that the witch (or warlock if applicable) didn't practice their witchcraft in their presence. (Out of respect for their individual beliefs). Not that I think too many witches practice in front of non-witches anyways.

Point is, it's just another belief. And as long as they're not shoving it at the chapter or letting it negatively affect their involvement, why should you have a problem with it? If you personally do, and you choose to try + get them 'out' of witchcraft, as their friend/sister/brother I think that's okay. As long as you accept them even if they stick with it + the group doesn't chastise them.

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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity

[mgdzkm433]

The reason why I asked this question is to sort of get a point across. I didn't have any negitive responses, which is good. Many people have a missconception of witchcraft and the religion known as wicca. Most people believe that witchcraft or wicca is the craft of the "devil." Which is completely untrue. Witches and wiccans (even pagens and occult members) have been given a bad name for centuries. None of these believe that there even IS a devil. The whole concept was created by Christians. Before Christianity was "popular" per say, many people lived in tribes. Each tribe had a type of "witch." Most didn't call themselves witches though. These witches were the tribes law, educator, wise man, leader, healer. It is a religion based on nature and 2 deities. One being a Goddess and the other being a God. The Goddess rules the earth and the Moon, while the God (the horned god) ruled the sun and the animal kingdom. Christians, in order to further their religion, came to the tribes and told them that their God (the horned god) was a bad god and that he was a devil. Many people converted because they were then afraid. Those who didn't convert were killed. It is called the Burning Times. It is estimated that between thousands to millions of people were put to death because they were considered witches. This misconception of witchcraft, and the religions surrounding it, has lasted even to this day. It is not so prominant today, but many people who practive do it in private because of the fear of society. These people are just like us, they work, they have kids, they shop at the grocery store, they eat at McDonalds. You would probably never know if you were sitting next to a witch.

Anyway, the point I'm getting to. Many people have a missconcepting about homosexual people. People don't understand and therefor come to conclusions that are, more often then not, completely untrue. Are we going to weed these poeple out? Are we going to discriminate against them because they feel and believe something different than we do? Are we going to repeat history? My example and the situation involving homosexual people are more alike than most would agree. Don't let yourself be drawn in by misconceptions. You won't know what it is like to be in their shoes, until you experience the same things. Open you eyes and your mind. Who says it's evil? The Bible? The Bible also says "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank IS in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from you own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from you brother's eye. Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces." Matthew 7: 1-6

Judgement day will come. We each stand on our own on that day. Untill then, God states that we shall NOT judge one another, or it will come back to us on OUR judgment day. "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first." John 8: 7
Please don't lay your judgment on others, not only for their sake, but your own.

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Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[Alumnus who cares]

I feel that a chapter should not discriminate against ANYONE, including gays. We have had at least a couple of gay brothers in our chapter over the past 10 years or so. One of them didn't come out until his final semester, and even then it was only to a couple of brothers. The other one didn't come out until after he graduated (although most suspected he was gay anyway). Still, for the most part, both of these brothers were discreet about their orientation, and an outsider might not have guessed that they were gay.

There is one thing to consider though, and that is the reputation of your chapter if someone is especially flamboyant, or hits on other guys in public while wearing your letters, goes to parties dressed in drag, etc. Even if that person's fellow brothers like him, think he's a good guy, etc., people from other chapters may form an opinion of your house and spread rumors that may hurt your chapter's reputation. People might start forming general opinions of your house as a whole, and that could hurt your chapter in terms of social aspects and especially membership.

While a house should not kick out or ostracize a member because of his sexual orientation, I wonder if it would be in the chapter's power to ask that member to "tone down his act," or if that would be considered infringing on his rights.

[mgdzkm433]

I can see where you are coming from. There is a time and a place for everything. Both sides should be made aware of this. In making it clear to the members who are gay that you want them to "tone" down a bit, remember that this is who they are, This is something that they feel, not something that one day they just decided to do because they thought it was cool. However, these members should have enough common sense to know that dressing in drag (if that is something they enjoy, I realize that not all gay members of the community do this) is not something that should be done during a meeting. As for parties, Have fun with it! Some of the most fun people I know are gay. You know why? They have had to overcome obsticals (coming out, slander, discrimination) that a lot of people would never understand. They have delt with more serious personal issues, and have learned not to let it get to them. In this lesson, they have learned that when it's time to be serious, they are serious, and when it's time to party, Hey anything goes. If they enjoy dressing in drag, have a drag party! Have all the brothers dress in drag! Now wouldn't that be a hoot. Instead of asking them to tone it down, join him for a night and see what kind of fun you can stir up. I'm not suggesting that you adopt that members way of life (unless you want to), I just suggesting that you enjoy him in the kind of atmosphere he enjoys. I'm sure he would be more than willing to lend you one of his wigs! You can have all sorts of theme parties that might help you and him feel more comfortable. For instance: A tropical Island theme. Everyone dresses up in accordance to the theme. He might show up in a bikini top, some lays, a grass skirt, and a Dolly Parton wig. He will feel comfortable, and people who don't know he's gay might think he's just a guy who decided to be funny. There, everyone can enjoy themselves.

Anyway, Just a suggestion. Just remember, there is a time and a place for everything. That goes for everyone.

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Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[SilverTurtle]

I'm LMAO at the thought of all these big, jock, fraternity guys throwing a drag party!!

[mgdzkm433]

Hey! If ya can't beat'em, JOIN'EM!! Who can throw a better party? Big Jocks? OR Drag Queens? I'm gonna go with Drag Queens! More exciting! PLUS, you can have a great time and enjoy yourself, because no guys are going to hit on ya. . .great for girls night out!!

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Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[SilverTurtle]

Mikki,

I can do nothing but agree!

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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity

[babyface1914]

If was after the fact, the bond would be there IF he was from my chapter and i "got with him". If he portrayed gay qualities on line i would have done my best to drop him. Sorry, but Im not with it.

[ELEGANTLADY2]

Well that is a good way to fell but there people are not being welcomed into there organizations. If you are open gay or lesiban you should be treated the same way as a st8 person. and babyface1914 "If was after the fact, the bond would be there IF he was from my chapter and i "got with him". If he portrayed gay qualities on line i would have done my best to drop him. Sorry, but Im not with it." That is not good to feel this way. If you would accept it after than you should not try to hender the person from getting. :-)

[equeen]

Mikki, have you read Marion Zimmer Bradley's "The Mists of Avalon"? I think you might like it, if you're interested in Wicca. At any rate, it's a good read.

Originally posted by mgdzkm433:
The reason why I asked this question is to sort of get a point across. I didn't have any negitive responses, which is good. Many people have a missconception of witchcraft and the religion known as wicca. Most people believe that witchcraft or wicca is the craft of the "devil." Which is completely untrue. Witches and wiccans (even pagens and occult members) have been given a bad name for centuries. None of these believe that there even IS a devil. The whole concept was created by Christians. Before Christianity was "popular" per say, many people lived in tribes. Each tribe had a type of "witch." Most didn't call themselves witches though. These witches were the tribes law, educator, wise man, leader, healer. It is a religion based on nature and 2 deities. One being a Goddess and the other being a God. The Goddess rules the earth and the Moon, while the God (the horned god) ruled the sun and the animal kingdom. Christians, in order to further their religion, came to the tribes and told them that their God (the horned god) was a bad god and that he was a devil. Many people converted because they were then afraid. Those who didn't convert were killed. It is called the Burning Times. It is estimated that between thousands to millions of people were put to death because they were considered witches. This misconception of witchcraft, and the religions surrounding it, has lasted even to this day. It is not so prominant today, but many people who practive do it in private because of the fear of society. These people are just like us, they work, they have kids, they shop at the grocery store, they eat at McDonalds. You would probably never know if you were sitting next to a witch.

[This message has been edited by equeen (edited April 13, 2000).]

[equeen]

oops...didn't mean to copy the entire message! My bad!

OK, I finally realized there was an edit feature on this thing!

[This message has been edited by equeen (edited April 13, 2000).]

[mgdzkm433]

Thank you, I will look into it. I'm not just interested in it, but I am a Christian Wiccan. It sounds impossible, but I am working on a study of both Christianity and Wicca and how the two can be incorporated into one. I'm actually working on a book for other people out there that believe the same things as myself.


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Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

I admire those who are open about their sexuality. They should not be treated differently.

we've got one lesbian in our chapter (she came out after freshman year), and she's treated the same as everyone else - her girlfriend comes to formal and other events.
it has served to show that we are NOT all about guys, obviously there is an aspect of sisterhood there too.

Originally posted by daruler:
I feel that a gay member of your sorority/fraternity should be treated just the way you would treat a gay family member or friend. Even if you disagree with their lifestlye, you still love the person. You know, love the sinner hate the sin.(For those who think homosexuality is a sin.) when it comes down to it, people are still people, no matter what they choose to do. And if you are bothered by it don't be, in the end only God can judge us. I don't see how being gay can affect the organization. It took a long time for minorities to be somewhat accepted in majority white fraternities. I think in time the gay issue will follow suit.

If someone hides their sexual preference in order to become a member of your organization that person is not true to them selves. The person that was let into the organization was a person of good quality, character, and moral standards. If you join an organization and then show your true self all that you went through is for nothing. Our society embraces to many things that are not good for the society. If we contiue we are going to embrace or encourage drug user's. Now is that an okay thing to do? Of course it's not but that is where we are headed. We as the younger portion of society have to set morals and live by them and pass it on to our childerns, cause if we don't we will be dealing with a society with that is headed to damnation.