How NOT to have Greek unity?

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by LeslieAGD


I disagree with this simply because my chapter has an unofficial house and IHQ cannot and/or does not impose rules on the house.

You can bet your sweet ass that it will if it's a risk mgmt issue. Girls have stricter rules than us guys do, and if all us old FIPG'ers have Risk Mgmt rules regarding risk management and Un-Official houses, you can bet you do too.

A few points on this subject from Lambda Chi Alpha's insurance Company, James R Favour and Co.:

An event could be attributed to the chapter in the eyes of a jury if any of the following conditions occur:

- Any amount of money affiliated with the chapter is used for the event (chapter funds, donations, or pooling of funds)
- Event was announced using a chapter phone tree, or at a chapter function.
- The event is publicized with reference to the chapter.

Off Campus and "unofficial" Chapter events:

Some chapters have intentionally participated in gatherings, functions, parties or events that were held away from the chapter's house or off campus in an attempt to circumvent the spirit and intent of the fraternity's policies. Most of these events occur at private residences (apartments, rental houses) of members or even at the residence of non-members and are classified as "unofficial" because they are not chapter sponsored. The risks posed by such events are often more substantial then "official" chapter events. A discussion of the myths associated with off-campus and "unofficial" events follows:

Myth #1
We are not liable for events at a members apartment.

Wrong. Courts have held that if a 'reasonable' person testifies that the event is in fact a 'chapter event' then it is a chapter event. In most cases, the chapter is held liable…even at a member's apartment. Think of your Greek advisor, or girlfriend walking into an event. If he or she would say it is a 'chapter' event, it is.

Myth #2
An individual member cannot be held liable for events he sponsors at his private residence.

Wrong. Most states have laws that incriminate a social host for serving alcohol to minors. If not, civil remedies are available to a person alleging injury after attending an event hosted by a chapter member. In addition, the member's parents may also be held liable for the actions of the member if he hosts a party and someone gets hurt.

Myth #3
We will just have the event at a non-members residence.

Think again. If a 'reasonable' person says that the event is a 'chapter' event, then it is. Again, think of your Greek advisor, or girlfriend walking into an event. If he or she would say it is a 'chapter' event, it is.

Myth #4
The General Fraternity cannot discipline a chapter for something that happens at an 'unofficial' event.

The General Fraternity will not hesitate to discipline a chapter if there is an incident of any kind at a social event where the event participants are violating the Fraternity's risk management policies.

The bottom line: If Lambda Chi Alpha could avoid liability by moving all chapter events off campus or making events 'unofficial', it would have instructed all chapters to do so.

I would be willing to assume that all of our HQ's have simular rules because this is in essence what our ins. companies have required of us to be insured. Remember tho, this covers risk mgmt issues only, not moral or rush policies. I would assume that would vary between orgs.

[FuzzieAlum]

Whether or not what ABC did was dodgy, you're on the losing end of a situation here. Next year XYZ will do the same (and with more girls than you, they're more likely to have the higher lottery number to do it with). That will leave Kappa as the chapter without a house, and while housing was never a standard rushees measured your chapters by in the past, they will now. And since you're the smallest and unhoused, the girls will think (probably with no fair foundation), "Oh, Kappa isn't as good - I'm not going there." You're locked into a losing proposition.

You could try for a theme house yourself, but maybe you won't get one - or your nationals won't allow it.

So you have two choices:

1) Play dirty and unpanhellenically, and try to get them in trouble. That might make them lose their house, but it will ruin any sense of Greek unity.

2) Rush three times as hard as anyone else on campus to get numbers up NOW before you're the chapter that's left out. If you've got the numbers but no house, no biggie - esp. if the theme houses change from year to year.

[LeslieAGD]

Originally posted by lifesaver
You can bet your sweet ass that it will if it's a risk mgmt issue.

Well, every chapter that I know of that has an unofficial house (and I'm not talking AGD...all chapters in general) do not follow official house rules. It's just a house where a bunch of brothers or sisters live. Now, if chapters are acting crazy or using the guise of an "unofficial house" to throw parties and say "well our rules don't apply," then you have a point. But if it's just a living arrangement then there shouldn't be an issue.

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by LeslieAGD


Well, every chapter that I know of that has an unofficial house (and I'm not talking AGD...all chapters in general) do not follow official house rules. It's just a house where a bunch of brothers or sisters live. Now, if chapters are acting crazy or using the guise of an "unofficial house" to throw parties and say "well our rules don't apply," then you have a point. But if it's just a living arrangement then there shouldn't be an issue.

Agreed. We have one and dont follow the rules so dont think I am being holier than thou. My point was that unfortunately, if something happened and little Tequila Shiela had too many and had to go to the ER and get her stomach pumped, mamma and daddy might try to pin it on the chapter even if it was at the unofficial house. Then the HQ gets involved, and if (for us) 25% of the active chapter was there, then it can constitutes an event. Yada yada yada.

I agree that it shouldnt apply, and it wont, except in an ex post facto kinda way - Should someone get hurt. Just something to think about.

[LeslieAGD]

Originally posted by lifesaver
Agreed. We have one and dont follow the rules so dont think I am being holier than thou. My point was that unfortunately, if something happened and little Tequila Shiela had too many and had to go to the ER and get her stomach pumped, mamma and daddy might try to pin it on the chapter even if it was at the unofficial house. Then the HQ gets involved, and if (for us) 25% of the active chapter was there, then it can constitutes an event. Yada yada yada.

I agree that it shouldnt apply, and it wont, except in an ex post facto kinda way - Should someone get hurt. Just something to think about.

First, no one accused you of being "holier than thou." I don't mean to sound gender biast, but your post explains exactly why it is easier for sororities to have unofficial houses as opposed to fraternities. The fraternities tend to have party houses, which could potentially become a risk management issue...sororities usually don't. I'm not staying that "rule-breaking" doesn't happen at sorority houses, but you're less likely to see a sorority throwing a kegger at their unofficial house.

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by LeslieAGD


First, no one accused you of being "holier than thou." I don't mean to sound gender biast, but your post explains exactly why it is easier for sororities to have unofficial houses as opposed to fraternities. The fraternities tend to have party houses, which could potentially become a risk management issue...sororities usually don't. I'm not staying that "rule-breaking" doesn't happen at sorority houses, but you're less likely to see a sorority throwing a kegger at their unofficial house.

I know no one accused me of being holier than thou... I said "so dont think I am being holier than thou." not "I dont think I am being holier than thou." My point was that since I was pontificating on rules and such, I didnt want peopel to think I was being preachy, trying to lecture everyone on risk management. My chapter definately doesnt follow 100% of the rules 100% of the time. I didnt want soemone to say, "Right, like your house has never broken a rule." Thats all.

I also agree with you that fraternities definately would have more of an issue with this. I am just saying that god forbid, an incident were to happen, the palntifs would do anything they could to link to the org - the deepest pocket theory if you will. Thats why they have the rules they do about unofficial events and such...To insulate themselves from a chapter should anything happen. Better to loose or close on chapter then the whole org declare bankruptcy and go under.

As you know, people will sure for anything these days. My org setteled a lawsuit a few years ago (we werent found liable, but dropped serious cash on atty fees) because a student was walking across campus somewhere and had a Lambda Chi flyer in his hand for a party. He walked by the jock dorm and got his ass kicked, damaged his brain, and is disabled now. His parents, in an attempt to place the blame in as many places as possible, sued my org on the grounds thaty the flier in his hands was the reason he got his ass kicked. Yeah, we didnt have to pay damages, and werent found liable, we still had to drop $50K to defend ourselves...money that could have been used for scholarships...badge rescueing...leadership training, etc.

My point was that they'll try and find a way to link it to the org, thats all.

[dz4me]

I think that ABC is on pretty thin ice with the alcohol in the house issue. I can't imagine their National HQ approving that. If that house is percieved as an ABC house and somebody drinks there and gets hurt or hurts someone else, guess whose pockets the attorneys are going to be looking in?

[LeslieAGD]

Originally posted by lifesaver
My point was that they'll try and find a way to link it to the org, thats all.

Point taken.

[KappaKittyCat]

Okay. I've been watching this board for the past few days, ever since KappaStarGirl alerted me to the discussion taking place. As a current active on the campus in question, I feel that I should clear some things up.

1) As of the 2002-2003 school year, all groups wishing to have a small house must apply under the terms of Formal Group Housing. This applies to everyone, from Fraterities & Sororities to the Outdoor Recreation Club and the Ultimate Frisbee Team. If granted, an FGH contract is good for three years, after which the group will be given the opportunity to re-apply. In order to stagger the re-application dates for years to come, in this first year of FGH's implementation, each group granted an FGH contract drew out of a hat whether its contract would go for one, two, or three years.

The Fraternities are no longer guaranteed housing in perpetuity, as KappaStarGirl said. Neither are they guaranteed that an FGH contract would place them in "their" house. The university is most likely going to raze two of the houses on the Quad to build a new student center.

2) The original plan was that all three sororities would get together and apply for a Panhellenic house. This would be a good way to ensure equity and promote Greek unity, and everybody was excited about it. Another benefit to having a Panhel house would be that, because we'd be living under the supervision of the university, we'd be just a bunch of Greeks occupying the same house. Panhel has no housing rules, and as it would not be a Kappa house or an ABC house or an XYZ hosue, none of the national housing visitation/alcohol rules would apply. ABC pulled out at the last minute and applied for their own house, offending a lot of people in the process.

3) FGH selection took place this year in May. Each of the five fraternities, as well as "ABC," the sorority in question, received FGH contracts. Other groups granted FGH include Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia (a men's music fraternity), a music performance group, and the Outdoor Recreation Club. Furthermore, each fraternity was placed in the building that it has called its own since the 1950's. Interestingly enough, the two fraternities whose houses are scheduled for demolition drew one-year contracts, the other fraternities drew two-year contracts, and everyone else drew three-year contracts.

Each group applying had to meet the following criteria:
A) student-governed
B) minimum membership of 11 and 90% occupancy of the house
C) history of active membership and responsible leadership; at least two generations of leadership within a governance structure consisting of more than one student
D) clearly articulated mission statement consistant with that of the university; explanation of how communal living will enhance fulfillment of that mission
E) an organizational and governance structure through which the responsibilities of maintaining the residence, coordinating outreach/service activities, educating the members about appropriate behavior, and organizing and managing group activities can be fulfilled; a clear plan for the recruitment of new members and leadership selection
F) planned campus/community outreach
G) faculty or staff advisor and (if possible) strong alumni support

The GLO's all applied under the auspices of their national organizations. They cited their philanthropies and social events as campus/community outreach. Their mission statements were the national ones, as were their provided codes of conduct and leadership selection. Their recruitment plans were detailed descriptions of Rush/Formal Recruitment. Each group certainly cited its strong alumni support in its application. In no way did ABC chapter hide the fact that it is a GLO in this process, nor was it overlooked by the FGH committee. This house is now known as the "ABC House."

4) Current Panhellenic bylaws provide that if each group is elligible to apply for FGH, any or all may do so. The original idea was to place an all-or-none clause in the bylaws, but that was scrapped for fear of all three groups' being turned down on the basis that the university did not want to grant housing to all of them. Since FGH has been granted to ABC chapter, the following changes are going to be added:
A) Letters may not be displayed on the house or in common areas until after FR.
B) No freshman women are allowed in the house until after FR.
C) All recruitment activites and chapter activities must take place in the chapter room of the Panhellenic Wing or in another appropriate place (i.e. a building lounge, where FR parties and COB events take place).

5) As far as I know, ABC's HQ allows for them to write their own visitation rules. What this chapter is looking at is something rather lax, along the lines of males' signing in and signing out. In terms of alcohol, I do not know. Knowing their HQ, my guess is that they will not be allowed to have alcohol in the house. As for their not having a house mother, because the house is university owned, the chapter is housed under the supervision of the university's Residence Life Department, so their HQ has waived the requirement for a house mother. The university will train a member of the house to be the Residence Life Manager and take care of those sorts of administrative and disciplinary things.

6) As it stands right now, XYZ is planning to apply for a house for 2003-2004. Kappa is debating. Right now our numbers are still low. We'd like to live in a house, but we feel that perhaps our chances in a deferred recruitment situation are better if we can place women in dorms containing freshmen. We all would like to live with our sisters, but I know that there is no way that Kappa HQ will lighten up on the visitation policies, and there will doubtless be a long debate on whether we would like to sacrifice our freedom.

7) You'd better believe that we'll all be camped out on ABC's door, just waiting for the rush infractions to pile up. *Evil Laugh*

Was this the right thing for ABC to do? I'm not sure. I don't think so. Will it hurt or help them in the long run? I'm also not sure about that. This coming year is going to be a whole lot of wait-and-see. I do think that sorority housing in general will beef up the image of the sororities on campus and hopefully encourage a bigger turnout at FR. Any freshman going through FR would not be able to live in the house until the following year anyway, so if Kappa and XYZ plan to apply for housing for 2003-2004, it shouldn't make much of a difference. There's really nothing we can do about the situation now, so the best way to handle things is to look at it is as a test-run for sorority housing on this campus. We'll re-evaluate next year.

I hope that this has cleared some things up. I am still definitely looking for advice as to rushing tactics, etc. Thanks in advance for your input.

[sweetie adpi]

now That's a horse of a different color! so it's actually recognized as abc's sorority house now, as in the same way the fraternity houses on your campus are? i definitely understand where you are coming from and why you are apprehensive and upset. very shady. i had thought that this group originally applied as something completely different (i.e. a service oriented group) than as a sorority. and now they have three years to be in that house? hmm sounds like you have your work cut out for you.... i think that the main thing is to emphasize recruitment so that you may be able to apply for one of the smaller houses and also have women in those freshmen dorms (very important) after this first year. i'll pm you later it's about my bedtime

[shadokat]

Man, if we had a Panhellenic House, the fur would've been flying 24/7!!

[KappaStargirl]

ah, the things you miss being so far from the chapter! Thanks for clearing that up!

I still think it's shady.

[FuzzieAlum]

Thanks for that very informative post!

Seems like the university's system is designed to create dissent, though. Obviously the demand for houses (Greek or not) is greater than supply, and they're tearing DOWN two more houses?