Saving yourself..to what extent?? - Page 2

HotDamGam · #16 02-14-2002, 05:48 PM

While I find it admirable, I think some people need to realize that you never know when you'll be walking down the aisle. I feel it's more important to wait for the right person, whether it be your spouse or someone else. I met the man I consider to be Mr. Right, who I love so much, and thought he would honestly be the first and last person I slept with for the rest of my life. Unfortunately, life got in the way and we were separated, but I do not regret anything that happened between us. I think that is what is important.

LexiKD · #17 02-14-2002, 07:26 PM

Well, here's my issue, what do you think of girls who do everything but actual sex and call themselves virgins.

My thing is, oral sex isn't intercourse, but it is very intimate and some women reserve that for a serious relationship or even after sex. Let's face it, you can still get STD's from oral sex-unless we are talking about using a condom, which how many ppl do that?

Anyway, I'm just saying that the word virgin, to me, isn't someone who has gone through the motions but just hasn't given it up 100%.

Just wondering what others thought.

RxyChrldr · #18 02-14-2002, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LexiKD

Anyway, I'm just saying that the word virgin, to me, isn't someone who has gone through the motions but just hasn't given it up 100%.

Just wondering what others thought.

Yeah I totally agree with you...I may be considered "old-fashioned", but I agree with the older generation who consider oral sex to be sex. I don't know, that's just me though...but I think people are smart enough to make their own decisions as to what "sex" means to them and go with that. Maybe some people feel that oral is less intimate than intercourse, but i'd have to disagree..if anything, it might be more so! Just my opinions..

amycat412 · #19 02-14-2002, 08:20 PM

I consider sex to be actual penetration, so to me, someone who hasn't been is still a virgin, now, that doesn't mean they are pure, that's for sure!

James · #20 02-14-2002, 09:42 PM

LexiKD, this is what I mean when I use the term "technical virgins". If you are perfectly happy to give and recieve orgasms through different modalities than penetration (Amycats word)intercourse then you are not being particularly virtous. And relgious virtue is probbaly the only real reason used for the whole maintaining an intact hymen idea until painful marriage dfloweration . .. which has to absolutely suck for your first experience on your marriage bed.

Also, for those maintaining virginity for Religious reasons: I doubt your GOd is much amused by all the other types of sexual contact you choose to indulge in. Remember, its the spirirt of the idea not the letter that your God holds you to. A lawyer is NOt going to get you into heaven (in fact having one talk for you might keep you out).

So keep it at least a little real or at least stop lying to us all.

Quote:

Originally posted by LexiKD
Well, here's my issue, what do you think of girls who do everything but actual sex and call themselves virgins.

My thing is, oral sex isn't intercourse, but it is very intimate and some women reserve that for a serious relationship or even after sex. Let's face it, you can still get STD's from oral sex-unless we are talking about using a condom, which how many ppl do that?

Anyway, I'm just saying that the word virgin, to me, isn't someone who has gone through the motions but just hasn't given it up 100%.

Just wondering what others thought.

#21 02-15-2002, 01:08 AM

I agree with HotDamGam. At a time when I think sex is overrated (and what I mean is that its all you see and hear about. I have to listen to my friends talk about it non stop, and i gotta agree with what one guy said...if you talk about it that much and feel like youd die if you didnt get any, you either SUCK in bed and no one has told you or you're a bunch of talk),I think its very admirable of them and I say more power to ya. After all, you cant miss or long for something you've never had. Seems our society has sex on the brain 24/7. Im old school though and think its something between 2 ppl that doensnt need to be made public. They I put it in to my friends.. I dont care what you do, who its with or what position and you're giving me bad mental images of you and your boy (who's not cute). Ew!

Optimist Prime · #22 02-15-2002, 01:22 AM

No wait a minute...lets just supose I meet a girl and fall in love but she won't give it up till our wedding night. Fine, but she better know how to give head. I don't want Optimist Juinor to be all bruised and chewed up.

h2oot · #23 02-15-2002, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
No wait a minute...lets just supose I meet a girl and fall in love but she won't give it up till our wedding night. Fine, but she better know how to give head. I don't want Optimist Juinor to be all bruised and chewed up.

I've read enough about guys wanting oral for one night. Maybe we better send those who obsess on it to the men's room.

HotDamGam · #24 02-15-2002, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by h2oot
I've read enough about guys wanting oral for one night. Maybe we better send those who obsess on it to the men's room.

Okay, as a recent addition to this board, I have noticed a lot of talk about oral sex on the guys part...and maybe this is a totally new topic, but...aren't there any women out there that enjoy giving it? Personally, I think it's very powerful.

justamom · #25 02-15-2002, 11:08 AM

First of all very few women get married "intact". It is a rather delicate membrane that can be broken due to something as simple as riding horses or bikes and taking a fall. The "pain" is a non issue for MOST since many aren't even aware it happened...
If the hymen is thick then yes, there could be some momentary discomfort- maybe for a few, pain, but it isn't a majority by any means.

Most girls DO start out hoping/thinking they will save themselves.
Honestly, how many of the women posting thought, "Man I've got to get me some before I get married!"
The thing is, everything is working against those hopes-the advertisment and media climate is all abut sex. The music industry-videos and lyrics-is as well. Add to the mix that many people are getting married at an older age. College has taken the place of HS and just at the time people once married we now see a minimum of 4 more years before independance. Biological needs are out of sync with our society.

To the oiginal question, I agree it is extreme to deny oneself the pleasure of a kiss. I also believe that many women in an attempt
to please/attract/keep men go much farther than they would prefer (in the beginning). The truth is, once you cross the line, it is so very difficult to say "Never again". THIS WAS MY FATHER'S ADVICE. Each landmark you cross that brings you closer to sexual intimacy erases prior limitations. Soon, justifications creep into your mind and you give yourself the "green light" to continue on your sexual journey BUT are you emotionally ready?

Men will forever seek sexual experieces. Why women are so naive'(stupid?) to fall for the pressures and supposedly logical arguments men exert on them to have sex is beyond me. Instead of throwing stones or lashing out at those who would TRY to remain virtuous, we should applaud them and support them in their choice. Considering the broken hearts on this board alone, the women who cheat on their friends the men and women seeking comfort outside of their OWN marriage or relationship, leads me to believe we have done more harm to ourselves as women by relaxing our stance on intimacy. The men are lapping up the cream. OK...BLAST ME!

RxyChrldr · #26 02-15-2002, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by justamom

Instead of throwing stones or lashing out at those who would TRY to remain virtuous, we should applaud them and support them in their choice.

Thank you, I totally agree with this. I'm totally impressed with others who've also decided to wait until marriage. For some reason though, maybe because there is more emphasis or pressure on the guys to have sex, I think i'm more impressed to find out a guy is saving himself. Doesn't seem to happen too often around here! Like I said though, I think everyone is responsible enough to know the choices that are right for *them* and should act accordingly. There's a definite amount of emotional intimacy you miss out on in a relationship by not having sex, so that has been reason for a lot of my friends who've had sex with boyfriends. Oh but I actually only know one girl of my friends from high school who's still a virgin, and probably less than 10 in my sorority....are we a dying breed?!

James · #27 02-15-2002, 12:15 PM

Justamom, I don't think the problem lies with men pressuring women or laying down devestatingly logical arguments that force women to have sex with them. If you know said arguments please email them to me

.

I just think that the rarely mentioned subtext on the issue is that the man wil eventually tire of the virgin situation. He knows it and she knows it. It creates a lot of tension. Obviously the man isn't looking it at the same way she is, which I assume is some type of religious prohibilition, because arguing it through ethics would be really hard and give me a headache. Its easier to take the Thou Shalt Not approach, it ends the argument.

So to him the fact remains that she doesn't want to have sex with him, and is maybe uncomfortable with some other types of activities also. To him that is no different than if the girl has some type of sexual dysfunction that doesn't allow her to want to have sex with him until they establish the level of committmen called marriage. The end result to him is the same and he has no guarentee that she is going to turn into some adventorous sexual predator after the ring goes on either.

Also, its an economics issue for guys. There are many marvelous women out there that are bright, witty, loyal, relationship orientated . . . and will be physically intimate with the guy without much drama. If he is into that type of sexual intimacy it would make more sense for him to leave his non-sexual relationship and take up with the other awesome girl.

The "soul mate" is a cute argument. But the vast majority of people don't meet, travel, or date enough people to ever even have a small claim that they have "looked" for their soul mate.

If you date a small handful of people and then marry one, did ou find your soul mate? Or the best out of a limited field? Or worse dating an alright person at the time you thought you should marry. I have talked to numerous married people that said the relationship before or the one before that was actually the right one.

I don't have a problem with women that want to remain virgins and I wouldn' t pressure one much, but I don't think its useful for a lot of them to sit there and say the world should be different to reflect their beliefs. I also don't hav a lot of sympathy for men that whine and give attitude about not getting any when dating a virgin.

twinstars · #28 02-15-2002, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RxyChrldr

Oh but I actually only know one girl of my friends from high school who's still a virgin, and probably less than 10 in my sorority....are we a dying breed?!

Well, yeah. Especially by the later years of college, the norm is not to be a virgin anymore. Not that I'm saying that's how it should be, but that's just a description of how things are in 2002. Plenty of college-aged girls never really thought they should/would wait for marriage (especially considering the AVERAGE age to get married is around 25/26 now)... at least they gave up on the thought of waiting once they passed junior high.... and a good portion of those who do still idealize abstinence before marriage end up not exactly following that in the face of temptation.

The truth is (statistically), the VAST majority of women/men aren't virgins on their wedding night. If you actually are, more power to you, but you are a rarity. The norm now, and for a pretty long time, has been premarital sex (which I think is a dumb term since people have, on average, about a decade of premarital sex)... whether people kept it hush-hush or talked about it openly (as lots do today).

justamom · #29 02-15-2002, 12:41 PM

Justamom, I don't think the problem lies with men pressuring women or laying down devestatingly logical arguments that force women to have sex with them. If you know said arguments please email them to me .

James, just read your own posts. (wink, wink)

h2oot · #30 02-15-2002, 12:42 PM

JAM, I agree with what you said.

James says: "Also, its an economics issue for guys."

An economic Issue??? Uh...like how much will she cost you before payback time....Geeze. Why don't you just ask her up front and be done with it. Isn't that what they do on street corners