Social vs. Service

[ECUGSS]

Originally posted by ecukd:
I think IFC and NPC groups shouldn't socially mix with Service groups or local groups for many reasons, but the main reason is:
IFC and NPC are the governing bodies of the social groups and have regulations which make us all play from an epual playing ground, so we all know who can do what and how. These rules superseed chapter rules so we all follow similar risk mangement plans, not to mention insurance.
NPC groups shouldn't mix with teams either for the same reason, what if something happend, only the sororoty has insurance.
About the Greek Week issue:It would be a different story if the service groups were indeed part of an all Greek Council and that council sponsered Greek Week, then I think it would be OK for any Greek Organization to praticiate.
This will always be an issue amoung campuses across the country unles we can set up national regualtions beacuse the different organzations ae set up so differently.

WOW! That sounds so bad... "I think IFC and NPC groups shouldn't socially mix with Service groups or local groups" --
I know that Kappa Delta used to be Pi Delta here at ECU so are you saying that none of the fraternities or sororities should have recognized you because you were local?
I think it comes down to more than insurance and dues being payed, etc. GSS at ECU doesnt try to participate in Greek Week events or anytihng like that, we do participate in Homecoming but that is open to everyone. We know that there is stuff that social greeks do that we dont and we are fine with that and we dont want to change that either. If there is such a big problem with service greeks doing social activities with social greeks, why not change YOUR rules (of many rules) and say that you wont have events with service/other organizations that are not on your council. But then again, should we as service greeks ask you to stop doing volunteer work for the community because you are a "social" organization. I do think some of the sororities on the ECU campus might get a little ticked that Gamma Sig does social events with fraternities but why should they? The fraternities "choose" to do things with us, sororities with problems - talk to IFC about it. Some say we dont have rules to follow, ummm yes we do. We have anti-hazing policies and rules about alcohol and such. The one rule that I know pisses off some of the social sororities is the one about mixers at the fraternity houses, Panhellenic sororities cannot have mixers at the fraternity houses but we can. Again, we are not under your council, so we dont have to follow that rule. We dont pay money to Panhellenic but why should we, we dont do anything with the group. As registered student orgs. on this campus we all get funding from Student Government, Panhellenic always gets a few thousands, which is another issue, seeing as to how your members of different sororities pay dues into Panhellenic, and we get less that a thousand everytime. We could argue that we should get more because we are SERVICE right? Don't answer that.

Anyway, you are right on one thing...

"This will always be an issue amoung campuses across the country unles we can set up national regualtions beacuse the different organzations ae set up so differently."

[kdgirlie]

I don't really have a problem with GSS mixing with the fraternities on campus but I hope you guys have insurance that is sufficant. As far as mixing in the houses, that isn't supposed to be done by Panhellenic groups when drinking is involved, and as we all know there have been some creative solutions. I honestly take the stand that what other groups do is there own business unless it brings down the greek community. To the average GDI service and socail greeks are the same thing, so both our actions can negatively effect each other.

[LexiKD]

P.S. Pi Delta was a member of ECU's Panhellenic and had to abide by the PH regualtions, that's why they could and DID particiapte socially and otherwise AND were registered as a member, paid PH dues and held council positions, as well as a delegate position.

It is not meant to be limiting, it is meant to be SAFE. I would hate it if a chapter were to lose their charter because of an accident with underinsured groups.

Most NPC ploices CURRENTLY prohibit mixing with uninsured groups (i.e. Service groups without the minimun coverage(Liability and $1,000,000), altheltic groups, and locals as well). IFC groups have insurance, if they were not covered their National Organization wouldn't allow them to be recongnized on a college campus, they average member may not know that, but their President and Tresurer do.

P.S. I never said not to recognize local groups, I said, not to mix socially with them. Rules have changes and the stakes are higher. Regulations are in place, it is up to the group to respect them.

NPC groups do not care about the socials that go on without us, we are not harmed in any way, but what about underage drinking...liability...and so on, if a Fraternity did have a social in their house, against their regulations, their insurance in null and void.

Who has said they were angry about you having parties at houses, it would be your loss not ours, how can we compare?

I just stated that it shouldn't happen for saftey reasons. By the way, it's not only NPC policy not to use Fraternity houses, it is EACH organization's rule as well(NPC). It makes sense for us, we need to give the liablity to the 3rd party vendor, if we didn't it would be solely on US!

The ONLY reason the NPC policy was passed in the first place was in support of MANY IFC groups that had gone dry, might I add that are on ECU's campus! They may have a deadlines, like 2001-2002 to do it, but NPC has been dry FOREVER and they wanted to show IFC nationally that we were in favor of their tough decision. The NPC resolution is NOT any more strict then any NPC group's individual policy, so we wouldn't care anyhow. ECU is a WIDE OPEN campus and is very different than many schools, so we have taken this hard, but to say NPC groups are mad that service groups party at Fraternity houses is a little far fetched to me.

Saftey is the issue. Service groups are awsome, I agree. But our groups are just as awesome and it is in my best intrest to protect/stick up for my group first. And just becasue we are social groups does not mean socials are all we do in that aspect. Social, to me, means well rounded. We do many service projects and social projects, I'm not disputing the facts, I'm just saying, we are on 2 diferent levels, 2 different governing bodies, and we were founded for DIFFERENT reasons. And the confusion of what I said is an example of that difference.

As for funding, we have 700+ members who benifit from our programming, not to metion, Recruitment, so that's why we get more funds. If you want to talk about money, ask IFC how much they get and then you will have a reason to be angry.

Maybe I should have explained a little better, I meant, we shouldn't mix socially if there is alcohol present, the liablity is TOO great. Plus this is coming from an alumna and I always put the chapter's best intrest first, unlike many colligeans.

I feel like we all should respect each other, and that means abiding by EVERYONE's regualtions, and yes that may mean not to socially mix, but that doesn't mean we cannot work together on campus projects and such. We all need support and would never want you to think I disliked your group, just because I think we should have mixers, NPC and Service groups don't mix anyhow, so what's the big deal?
------------------
Lexi



[This message has been edited by ecukd (edited June 01, 2001).]

[SigTauJake]

WOW, I started something with this one...

I meant mixing with alcohol. That was what was going on at our school. IFC houses were having Mixers with GSS. I didnt mean that "socially" we couldn't mix. We have GSS sisters coming to our house on the weekends, and it is cool with everyone.

[33girl]

What Lexi was saying (and got misinterpreted) was that an IFC fraternity should not have a mixer, an event, with GSS or a non-NPC group. She didn't say they should shun them or anything!!

The question is about co-sponsored events, not open parties or hanging out with people. So don't everyone get your knickers in a twist.

[LexiKD]

Exactly 33!

At ECU, socially means socials, which means alcohol, that's what I was responding to...the original question.

ECU rarely has "social" events without alcohol, except the occasional BBQ or Speaker (IFC/PH)event. This coming from a campus that has 1-3 socials per week.

[This message has been edited by ecukd (edited June 03, 2001).]

[KDCHICK]

As a member of a social sorority, If service groups want to havce socials with social fraternies, then they should start paying social dues. I'm sorry but if we have to do it,then so should they, if they get the insurance. then I say so be it, until then, I don't think its safe.

[JayBEE!]

Originally posted by SigTauJake:
Greeksing is worth the most points in our Greek Week, and if they place high enough, the social frarternity gets the points towards Greek Week, and the service sorority just uses up those points, and they are "wasted" because they are not part of Greek Week. ......... Change can be good, but not always.

This doesn't seem like a big problem to me, It only seems like a problem if someone doesn't get the points if they place high. If that's the case, the NSO can donate the points to the next lower finish, and stagger the rest. If that's the problem

It still doesn't sound like a situation where an organization should get straight denied for participation in the event. epecially after they've paticipated in the event already. If they place high? There really shouldn't be a fear in competition. A positive action will always be the best way to go.

You should not look at the organization's participation. Those are individuals. People just like you. You can deny deny deny, but wouldn't you think it'll be best to just be better organized about it. Professionalism goes a long way. And these people in this organization has friends that are not in your organizations, non-GLO's. Wouldn't positive interaction produce positive statements for all GLOs of the GC?

[skegee4me]

So let me get this str8
service sorority are ok as long as we do not socialize and try to particpate in GLO activites?
and what is a greek sing?
i am trying to understand here,and i am trying to understand why this is even an issue....

[ztafairy]

A "Greek Sing" is like Milli Vanilli, you lip-sync to a song or a mix of songs that your organization makes up and then make costumes and dance to the song(s). You can get points at some schools if you win that are added to the weeks total points but at my school, it's just something that the organizations want to do and have fun doing it. There's not a point system during our Greek Week. Actually, sometimes the organizations actually sing the songs, sometimes good and sometimes not so good. It's a lot of fun! One year at my school, a fraternity did a New Kids On the Block song and dressed up like all five of the members. I think they won too!

[This message has been edited by ztafairy (edited June 04, 2001).]

[LexiKD]

P.S. JayBEE...I never said that you did not have insurance. I said we wouldn't plan an event with uninsusred/underinsured groups. That may or may not include you. When I say insurance, I mean the same all NPC chapter's must have to cover SOCIAL events, where there is alcohol present.

Drinking is a difficult issue and if I were a social chair, I would not plan an event with any groups that did not meet our risk management standards, that may or may not include your group, but at ECU that includes service, local, and teams. I don't think my group is too high and mighty to have an event with these groups, I know my chapter is more important than a party that may or may not result in an accident that will jeapordize(sp?) my chapter/members.

It is too important to slide by and be PC about this topic. We shouldn't mix until we have the same rules, like NPC and IFC. We have rules contingent on the others.

If you want to dispute the fact that social organizations don't do as much service as yours go ahead, be my guest! Service groups were founded for that purpose, right?

As for a greek week event, it would be up to the council to invite who they want. Our greek week is funded by IFC, so they get to decide who can participate if it can down to that. But our events, like Greek Sing are in bars and no one can say who can and cannot come.

I wish we could all accept that we joined different groups for a reason, and yes that may mean, we don't do everything everyone else does!

[JayBEE!]

Most NPC ploices CURRENTLY prohibit mixing with uninsured groups (i.e. Service groups without the minimun coverage(Liability and $1,000,000), altheltic groups, and locals as well). IFC groups have insurance, if they were not covered their National Organization wouldn't allow them to be recongnized on a college campus, they average member may not know that, but their President and Tresurer do.

What makes you think that Service organizations are not insured organizations. If we are not insured then it would be highly unlikely that we wouldn't even be able to be on campus as a register organization anyway. I think you are just reaching for an excuse for not sponsoring events jointly on your campus. Jointly sponsored event has been happening all across the nation. the reason is multifold. We have ablities on some campuses that other organizations don't. We consistently do more service events on campuses and jointly sponsored service events will help social organizations get service hours.

I understand the attempt not to shun another organization. But sometimes counciled individuals look at a non-counciled organization as a "not so organized" organization. This can't be futher from the truth. With several campuses with charters and with it's longevity in existence, "National Service Organizations" must be able to protect themselves. We are talking about students here. It would silly not to have insurance.

The main problem is that some Council organizations feel that the playing field they existed on should be elevated above non-Counciled organizations. And anything Such as Service Greeks, should not exist as Greeks at all. aren't they crossing some lines they shouldn't be.

Hummmmm. Come on now. I think that it is absolutely wonderful to have a Service Greek take part in Greek Sing. And the postitive action could only be look at as positive by non-GLO individuals. I think that if you are going to allow a NServiceOrg to take part in your activities, then as a Council, they should develop some sort of registration packet including signing waivers. The alternative is not allowing a highly recognize campus sorority group to perform. That can only be look at as a Negative Council Action by Non-GLO individuals. Think about it.

[SigTauJake]

When it comes to Greeksing, I would be all for it if they participated in thier own category. If a service sorority and a service fraternity wanted to enter, just to show off their talents, and be part of the action of Greeksing then fine. But to have a service sorority and a social fraternity as a team, competing against all social groups, then that is where the problems arise. Greeksing is worth the most points in our Greek Week, and if they place high enough, the social frarternity gets the points towards Greek Week, and the service sorority just uses up those points, and they are "wasted" because they are not part of Greek Week.

As for consistently doing more service projects on campus, that is what you are supposed to do as a service group. As a social group we do more social activites. We have required amounts of service hours every semester, and we as a social fraternity only fall 3 hours short of the requirement that the service fraternities have. We do our own service activities and we do a lot of it.

No one get me wrong, I am all for service organizations, I just don't think that the tradition of Greek Week, at my school at least, is a social greek thing, and it is something that a lot of people don't want to change. Change can be good, but not always.

[mgaylor]

Do you go to IUP?

Originally posted by SigTauJake:
I am not trying to cause any arguments here, but rather I am just trying to get some opinions.

Here is the situation, we have 16 social fraternities on campus, and 11 social sororities. We, the fraternities, generally mix with each sorority atleast once a semester. Lately, like the last two years, the service sororities have been having mixers with some of the houses on campus, and participating in certain events, usually left up to the social houses. This is angering many of the sororities on my campus, and even some fraternities. Case in point, one service sorority participated in Greek Sing, although they do not participate in Greek Week. I am not sure if the fraternity they were paired with didnt have another partner or what, but if they would have placed in the top three, those points they collected would of been wasted, since they do not participate in Greek Week. Is this right? They do not pay the same fees on campus, such as Panhel, and I am not sure they have to pay the insurance that we do either. I am not sure where I stand, but no disrespect to the service ladies on GC, but aren't they crossing some lines they shouldn't be. It is like they are trying to be a social house, but hide behind the letters of a service organization. No one on campus watches them when they have "pledges" and they have been known to haze and have pledges for 12+ weeks. No only does this seem crazy for a service organization, but any organization at that.

Does this seem strange to anyone else, or is this normal and it is finally just happening at our campus? Let me know.

[ECUGSS]

No one on campus watches them when they have "pledges" and they have been known to haze and have pledges for 12+ weeks. No only does this seem crazy for a service organization, but any organization at that.

I know that none of the Gamma Sigma Sigma chapters can have pledge periods longer than 10 weeks, so I dont know who you are talking about there.