Alabama recruitment fall-out

[Low D Flat]

And the 2013-2014 "in-dorm" fees? $5978.

The comparison is important at schools where most members can choose to live in. At Alabama, even for the chapters with the big new houses, most members don't have the option, and only four of the big houses are operating. A fair number of members never get to live in at all (the sophomore class is bigger than the house capacity for the biggest houses, plus the officers have to live in). So the vast majority of members are paying the out-of-house fees, on top of their living expenses, for either three or four years. It's a significant cost.

[Jhawkie]

Perhaps people perceive that there is a bias to the large, historically white Greek organizations because there has been a history of racial discrimination yet Univeristy of Alabamacontinues to lease them the land at a very low cost.

If the school is willing to lease land to other organizations, that is good. But it doesn't negate the fact that an organization is still a getting low-cost lease and has a history of discriminating against others. The right doesn't cancel out the wrong.

Even within an organization (even on Kappa Delta's own Facebook page!) there is discussion about how certain chapters are permitted to engage in behavior that would be grounds for chapter closure elsewhere in the country.

Whether you think this article is unfair or not, the story isn't finished, and a lot of history is left to be written. All eyes are on you Alabama.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by Jhawkie

Perhaps people perceive that there is a bias to the large, historically white Greek organizations because there has been a history of racial discrimination yet Univeristy of Alabamacontinues to lease them the land at a very low cost.

If the school is willing to lease land to other organizations, that is good. But it doesn't negate the fact that an organization is still a getting low-cost lease and has a history of discriminating against others. The right doesn't cancel out the wrong.

Even within an organization (even on Kappa Delta's own Facebook page!) there is discussion about how certain chapters are permitted to engage in behavior that would be grounds for chapter closure elsewhere in the country.

Whether you think this article is unfair or not, the story isn't finished, and a lot of history is left to be written. All eyes are on you Alabama.

So you are suggesting that the Greeks be punished by charging more for leases, yanking leases, or booting chapters from campus? Just wondering what you feel is just.

It will be interesting to see what happens this fall. My own feeling is that fewer AA PNMs will register than some tend to imagine (I think it is wrong to assume that droves of AA freshmen girls are interested in joining -- and would if they could -- in my mind, that assumption reflects a non-minority perspective on its own).

IMO, some of the loudest (and most sensational) voices are no more concerned about racism than they are with a sensational story and/or reason to hate Greeks. I predict that the AA PNMs that do participate will be on their radar, especially any who do not receive a bid. This year has the potential to be awkward for these girls - I hope they can just be PNMs - not story opportunities.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

It will be interesting to see what happens this fall. My own feeling is that fewer AA PNMs will register than some tend to imagine (I think it is wrong to assume that droves of AA freshmen girls are interested in joining -- and would if they could -- in my mind, that assumption reflects a non-minority perspective on its own).

It's not as simple as "interested in joining" if you don't come from the right background. You know that as well as anyone.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

It's not as simple as "interested in joining" if you don't come from the right background. You know that as well as anyone.

I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make -- that it is wrong to assume droves of AA freshmen girls are just dying to join NPC sororities.

(Though certainly their race should not be a barrier if they do wish to join)

Certainly there are other issues and perceptions that may revolve around familial exposure, background, and connections. See the research article I linked.

(but of interest on the topic of the "right background" - a wonderful man who immigrated from a country in South America painted my house eight years ago. He was fairly new to our country - about 2 years I think -and still struggled a little with English at the time. I spoke with him again about 2 years ago, and he told me his daughter was at Alabama. And an ADPi.)

[Jhawkie]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

So you are suggesting that the Greeks be punished by charging more for leases, yanking leases, or booting chapters from campus? Just wondering what you feel is just.

I'm not really suggesting any punishment such as yanking a lease or pulling a charter. I stated understood the predicament that KD HQ is in, and I'm not suggesting that they do something of the sort, at least right now. I'm just pointing out that many non-Greeks perceive that their continued presence and low-cost lease on campus property, in spite of a history of racism, is suggestive of favoritism. Other members of their own organization are publicly questioning why resources are diverted to a chapter who has behaved in such a manner, which I don't think is an unreasonable question.

In my opinion, it sounds like the University has gotten very cosy with organizations on these leases, and now it would be very difficult for them to back out, no matter what they do. Where do they draw the line? What does a chapter have to do to lose a lease that is assisted with tax-payer funds?

I actually believe that the vast majority of the active GLO sororities at Alabama would embrace integration, and obviously, many chapters already have. But, if this kind of behavior and bad attitude persists, then the narrative isn't done.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by Low D Flat

The comparison is important at schools where most members can choose to live in. At Alabama, even for the chapters with the big new houses, most members don't have the option, and only four of the big houses are operating. A fair number of members never get to live in at all (the sophomore class is bigger than the house capacity for the biggest houses, plus the officers have to live in). So the vast majority of members are paying the out-of-house fees, on top of their living expenses, for either three or four years. It's a significant cost.

That’s true – though many who have the opportunity to move in elect to live off-campus (juniors and seniors).

IMO, the impression the article leaves by including the discussion of the 14-member multicultural sorority is that the sorority failed because they did not have a house, implying an inequity or lack of support from the institution because they were non-white.

And that the NPC Greeks are elitist via the cost of their "clubs," and that presumably this is a barrier to race.

It may certainly be a barrier (it is a barrier to any student who cannot afford it). I did a brief search for some demographics on the cost issue and tripped across this study which (among other issues) explores cost, social class perception, and familial influences (who knew the Association of Fraternity/Sorority Advisors had a research journal?):

ASIAN AMERICAN WOMEN’S PERSPECTIVES ON HISTORICALLY WHITE SORORITY LIFE: A CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND CULTURAL CAPITAL ANALYSIS
http://afa1976.org/Portals/0/documen...20Fall2012.pdf

I don't see a way to make the cost of a social organization fair to those (of any race) who cannot afford the cost -- or even separate it from the social class perception the (OP) article perpetuates.

[TXGreekMom]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

It may certainly be a barrier (it is a barrier to any student who cannot afford it). I did a brief search for some demographics on the cost issue and tripped across this study which (among other issues) explores cost, social class perception, and familial influences (who knew the Association of Fraternity/Sorority Advisors had a research journal?):

ASIAN AMERICAN WOMEN’S PERSPECTIVES ON HISTORICALLY WHITE SORORITY LIFE: A CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND CULTURAL CAPITAL ANALYSIS
http://afa1976.org/Portals/0/documen...20Fall2012.pdf

I don't see a way to make the cost of a social organization fair to those (of any race) who cannot afford the cost -- or even separate it from the social class perception the (OP) article perpetuates.

Quoting so I can find this link again. It was a good paper but it seems to be "back dooring" a racist element into what the author admits is primarily a financial barrier.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

^^^YUP

[Titchou]

I'm only going to address the housing issue. The University holds the mortgages on these places...ALL of them that have mortgages are thru the University. The ones that are paid for - or that the house corps have equity in - have to be bought back by the University. So, UA is getting the interest on the loans, don't have to house these students, and have at least some control over their living environment, But pulling the plug on one would mean having to buy back the "improvements" if the chapter leaves. The housing answer is far more complicated than pull their charter and take the house. And it may be a sweet deal for the land lease, but the mortgage payments have to be made and the upkeep has to be paid. And UA funds none of that.

[Jhawkie]

I also just want to say, there is a tremendous amount of trash talking happening on the public thread regarding this topic on the Kappa Delta HQ Facebook page.... particularly against the woman who was interviewed for this story. I'm a little surprised that they are allowing any of this feedback to remain up there at this point.... interesting.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Jhawkie

I also just want to say, there is a tremendous amount of trash talking happening on the public thread regarding this topic on the Kappa Delta HQ Facebook page.... particularly against the woman who was interviewed for this story. I'm a little surprised that they are allowing any of this feedback to remain up there at this point.... interesting.

Either some of it did get deleted or you're reading a different thread than I am. The only person I saw trash talking her was one of her own chapter sisters, who made herself look like a complete jackass by saying Kirkland talked about things that should stay private...and then turned around and did the same thing herself.

I had chapter sisters that drove me nuts, but I absolutely cannot imagine trashing them to all the world, no matter what they did.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by Jhawkie

I'm sorry, but I highly doubt she is going to be welcomed with open arms anywhere below the Mason-Dixon line after this.

Who has two thumbs, lives below the Mason-Dixon line, and would welcome anyone fighting against racism? Me.

We're not all Klan members down here, you know.

[Jhawkie]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

Who has two thumbs, lives below the Mason-Dixon line, and would welcome anyone fighting against racism? Me.

We're not all Klan members down here, you know.

Well, then you should probably call her for her resume.

The idea that someone would out their chapter for racist/prejudice membership selection tactics (whether it is true or not)... just to promote their own self, is outrageous. Speaking up, going against the grain and taking a risk has not exactly been an encouraged behavior at Alabama. If it were, we wouldn't be talking about this in 2014, this would have been addressed 20 years ago. If you think this won't follow this young woman in her community, I have some swampland to sell you.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by Jhawkie

Well, then you should probably call her for her resume.

The idea that someone would out their chapter for racist/prejudice membership selection tactics (whether it is true or not)... just to promote their own self, is outrageous. Speaking up, going against the grain and taking a risk has not exactly been an encouraged behavior at Alabama. If it were, we wouldn't be talking about this in 2014, this would have been addressed 20 years ago. If you think this won't follow this young woman in her community, I have some swampland to sell you.

Oh bless your heart. Did you see that? It was my point, going straight damn over your head.