Time to End Lavaliering?

[DrPhil]

Lavaliering is probably not going anywhere. This author is expressing an opinion. He isn't the first person to do so. All is right with the world.

By the way, saying "(gay or straight)" operates with the premise that it is so obvious and accepted that it goes without saying. Of course that isn't true which, as far as some people are concerned, is one reason to challenge certain traditions.

[Sciencewoman]

Originally Posted by OldOleMiss

My second cherished memory involves my own father who passed away 6 years ago. I recently was "brave enough" to sort through his "catch-all" box that my mother had given me. Inside I found a Chi-Omega badge (Not my GLO). I knew it had to belong to an old family friend whom my father had dated in college and who had written my Chi-O rec when I was going through rush. I called her explaining that I had found a badge and wondered if it was hers as I would like to return it. She started crying. She still had my fathers Sigma-Nu pin!!! She asked that I keep her badge as she did not want to part with my fathers and that she would make sure it was returned to me after she was "gone". This touched me so greatly that she wanted to not only hold on to a piece of her youth and a piece of my father but also wanted me to hold on to it as well. They obviously never married, didn't even date past college, but clearly both cared enough to hold on to each other's badges for more than 50 years. I LOVE owning her pin almost as much as I would love to have my father's for the simple reason that it makes me closer to him in a way that ordinarily I never would have been and it helps me know the man he was before he was "dad".

You have a big heart. I don't think I would be able to view this situation with the same generous spirit. I'd be bothered by the fact that she wanted to keep my father's badge...50 years later and she wasn't my mother/the woman he married, and by the fact that she didn't want to get her own badge back in return.

[KSUViolet06]

Something that chapters at my alma mater do: Big Sisters lavaliere their Littles. Not a romantic thing, but I think it's cool.

[adpiucf]

Lavaliering was affectionately referred to as "the kiss of death" for relationships at UCF. Once a girl was lavaliered, break-up was imminent. This was the rule, rather than the exception. But the girl got her candle lighting out of it, and the guy had to endure some ridiculous razzing from his fraternity brothers (which typically involved running down Greek Park and being thrown into Lake Claire).

I think it is a dumb tradition, and so is pinning, but I don't think that it should end because it is meaningful to many Greeks. And it shouldn't matter what gender you are. Love is love. If you want to argue that a guy shouldn't lavaliere/pin his boyfriend because that boyfriend is not a member of the fraternity, the same argument can be made for why a woman should not be allowed to wear a man's letters.

[SWTXBelle]

When the Theta Tau Chapter of Sigma Chi was installed, I was presented with a badge replica (a charm) by their Grand Consul Keith Sorensen. I was then married to the president of the local/new chapter. When I divorced him, I gave him back the badge he had pinned me with, but did NOT give him my badge charm. That was presented to me in recognition for all I did to help the colony (and trust me, it was a great deal). Since I was given it independent of my relationship with Bozo, I didn't think he had a claim to it.

[sigmagirl10]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Something that chapters at my alma mater do: Big Sisters lavaliere their Littles. Not a romantic thing, but I think it's cool.

My chapter does this, in a sense--bigs purchase lavaliers for the little to receive upon initiation.

[OldOleMiss]

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman

You have a big heart. I don't think I would be able to view this situation with the same generous spirit. I'd be bothered by the fact that she wanted to keep my father's badge...50 years later and she wasn't my mother/the woman he married, and by the fact that she didn't want to get her own badge back in return.

sciencewoman- I would have been bothered by the fact if she HAD wanted her badge back and did not want to give up my fathers... but the simple fact that both had had each other's pins for 50+ years all I could think of was the memories that they must have carried for each other. I like knowing that I own something that meant so much to my father that he didn't throw it away and that she feels the same. Imagine how crushing it would have been to find out she didn't have my dad's pin or worse that she had lost it or thrown it away. I know the pin is where it is safe and cherished. She knows the same about hers. My mother was never in a GLO as she went to an all girls college and the badge would have meant nothing to her- she probably would have tossed Dad's pin years ago during spring cleaning had she ever been in possession of it- ha ha ha.... my parents were married for 41 years and were deeply in love with each other. I look at the pin not so much as a symbol of "old love" but as a fond memory of a happy time in each of their lives.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Something that chapters at my alma mater do: Big Sisters lavaliere their Littles. Not a romantic thing, but I think it's cool.

At my school, your lavalier was always a gift from your big (until GC I thought it was that way everywhere). I wouldn't consider that "lavaliering. "

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

TJ is not always right about everything. I'm sure his partner doesn't want a lavalier now...but what about when they were active in college? Things may have been different. Not all straight or gay couples may find this practice to be important, but for those who do, to each their own.

True story. You can't compare what a 30 year old wants with what a 20 year old wants and using it as an argument is silly.

OldOleMiss, that is a beautiful story. As Patricia Neal said, there are as many ways to love as there are people to love.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by 33girl

At my school, your lavalier was always a gift from your big (until GC I thought it was that way everywhere). I wouldn't consider that "lavaliering. "

Same.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

True story. You can't compare what a 30 year old wants with what a 20 year old wants and using it as an argument is silly.

Perhaps but this goes beyond age. This is also about campus culture, certain GLO cultures, and other things. My perspective on lavaliering now is not too different than my perspective on lavaliering almost 20 years ago. The people in this thread who like lavaliering are past their 20s yet they still appreciate lavaliering.

[KillarneyRose]

OldOleMiss, I loved reading your stories; especially the one about your father in law. It actually reads like an upbeat version of something Faulkner would write!

For the second story, though, I think I would have to agree with Sciencewoman. I don't think I could be as generous as you were. The only similar situation I could come up with regarding my own life would be if I found a sorority Badge that wasn't DZ and called the lady up and she divulged that she had my husband's Naval Academy class ring (no fraternities where he went to school), I would have said no how, no way, give it back.

Know what though? It makes me happy that there are such kind people like you in the world

[OldOleMiss]

Originally Posted by KillarneyRose

if I found a sorority Badge that wasn't DZ and called the lady up and she divulged that she had my husband's Naval Academy class ring (no fraternities where he went to school), I would have said no how, no way, give it back.

I think it is completely different if it is your spouse rather than your parent. I know I would completely feel the same if I found out that my husbands "missing badge" was in the possession of his ex and he had her badge!!! I also never told my mother about the badges as I think it would upset the heck out of her as well... but for me, not being the spouse, I think it is a sentimental and sweet reminder of "they way they were".

Originally Posted by adpiucf

Once a girl was lavaliered, break-up was imminent. This was the rule, rather than the exception

Ha.. ha.. ha... at Ole Miss as well (at least in my chapter!!!)-- but I did like a good candlelight!!! (yes I am a traditional sap!)

[ChioLu]

At Tulsa University, for a lavalier or pinning, the guy would get duct-taped to the (large) anchor statue in front of DG (no matter what sorority his girlfriend was a member) -- in his underwear -- by his fraternity brothers. If it was winter, his brothers would also (lovingly?) throw a bucket of cold water on him too.

And oh, OldOleMiss -- don't make me cry. At work.

[DubaiSis]

Never having been laveliered in college (at a school where it most definitely was done ) I would have loved to participate in the tradition. Not enough to put up with any of the guys I had any hope of getting to that point with, but still...

But I think it does bring up an interesting question about same-sex sharing of letters and men or women who are both part of different fraternities. I find it more interesting than important to resolve, but I can't help but think this is a kumbayah moment. I wasn't in college THAT long ago, and there's no way in hell this issue would have been discussed with a straight face or without a huge dose of derision. Now, I remember a guy friend telling me some of the fraternities should have been having exchanges (as we called them, mixers, parties, whatever you call them) with EACH OTHER. But that was a pretty controversial thing to say. There wouldn't have been a glimmer of a thought that this Kappa Sig would have worn a Lambda Chi lavelier.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

There wouldn't have been a glimmer of a thought that this Kappa Sig would have worn a Lambda Chi lavelier.

To me, this gets at the practical crux of the matter. Questions of whether it's an outdated tradition, sexist or heterosexist aside, when a male lavalieres or pins a female or allows her to wear his letters in some other way, there is no risk of confusion that she will be seen as a member of his fraternity. (That is, assuming we're not talking about a co-ed fraternity.) But when a male lavalieres or pins his boyfriend or otherwise allows him to wear letters, then there is that risk of confusion. Perhaps a solution lies in some token specifically intended only for a significant other.

Disclaimer: My fraternity doesn't allow anyone other than initiated brothers to wear the letters or the badge, so traditional lavaliering or pinning is out for us. It was once allowed, and we did once have a smaller mother's/wife's/fiancée's badge available, but it has since been prohibited nationally.