What’s it like to be in a Huge Chapter?

[melindawarren]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Okay, I'll buy that you can give off a certain vibe during recruitment, but generally, most chapters try to pair PNM's with people who they will click with. Even if a chapter chooses its best recruiters, and a PNM is more introverted, I just don't buy that there are too many women who think "man, this chapter is too cool for me".

One right here! There were a few chapters that were definitely too cool for me. And it definitely didn't feel as though they were pairing us with girls we matched with. Then again, I have no clue what happened at pref.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by melindawarren

One right here! There were a few chapters that were definitely too cool for me. And it definitely didn't feel as though they were pairing us with girls we matched with. Then again, I have no clue what happened at pref.

I was intimidated by certain chapters as well, believe me. But I really don't think that, had you been invited to pref only by chapters that were "too cool", you would have dropped out of recruitment. I know I would not have.

ETA: I didn't mean that to sound snippy, or be directed at MW personally, I just meant that rush impressions are only rush impressions.

[melindawarren]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I was intimidated by certain chapters as well, believe me. But I really don't think that, had you been invited to pref only by chapters that were "too cool", you would have dropped out of recruitment. I know I would not have.

ETA: I didn't mean that to sound snippy, or be directed at MW personally, I just meant that rush impressions are only rush impressions.

Oh, I get it (and you definitely don't sound snippy)! But I would have probably been uncomfortable at some point--either pref, bid night or in the weeks (or months, even) after. Rush impressions are tough, but there were some chapters where I felt like I was speaking a foreign language when I mentioned how much I love Doctor Who or Hot In Cleveland or [insert off-the-wall interest]. On the flip side, these girls talked about the Weekender (big trip upstate that happens once every other year) or football games or things that just made me feel out of place. I guess "too cool" is probably the wrong phrase, but just...not on the same wavelength? Our sensibilities just didn't click.

Of course, if I'd been invited back to those chapters, there's always a chance I would have found someone who clicked with me at some point, but the chapters made the decision on this one.

[And, as an aside, I wouldn't have dropped out of rush. I wanted to make things work however possible.]

[PhoenixAzul]

This kinda makes me chuckle.

I am an alum of a chapter that was 25ish people at its largest during my four years. My pledge class was 9.

I remember looking at the largest sorority (our neighbors) at 75 and thinking "how the heck can they know eachother!!!"

With the perspective of age, I understand a lot more now.

But when I was working at Oklahoma, I was just SHOCKED by the size of the houses, the size of the chapters...I think our tiny little house could have been a garage to the chapter houses there. KKG's annex was about the size of our entire house. It really hit home how different the Greek experience can be across the country.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by PhoenixAzul

It really hit home how different the Greek experience can be across the country.

Different, yes, but there is SO much that's the same. I served as a regional officer 30 years after I pledged, but still had a great deal of common experience with the girls in the chapter at the time.

One of my chapters was down to 17 members on a campus where most of the sororities were around 50 members. Of those 17, 12 were seniors and were going to graduate in the spring. All the members were worried sick that this was the last year their chapter would be there. They spent a lot of time dreaming of what they could do "if only we had more members."

God bless her, the Greek advisor on that campus took the bull by the horns and organized a special recruitment just for them. She even ordered every sorority AND fraternity to not badmouth our group for the entire semester! (It was a very small campus!)

On pledging day, the chapter added about 40 members overnight.

Were the members thrilled? No.

Almost immediately, they were complaining about how the "new" girls did things. It's human nature - we resist change.

[DrPhil]

Huge collegiate chapters suck.

That is all.

*running*

[33girl]

^LOL. Are you saying NPHC chapters specifically or all large chapters?

It's not an experience I would have wanted, but then again I didn't want to go to a school of 25,000 people either.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

It's not an experience I would have wanted, but then again I didn't want to go to a school of 25,000 people either.

Are there any schools with very large chapters, but no housing? I would love to hear what THAT experience is like.

[jazing]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Are there any schools with very large chapters, but no housing? I would love to hear what THAT experience is like.

Where I'm at the top is 175, lowest is half that. I've never wondered about that though, pretty interesting considering they want housing so bad

[gee_ess]

As an alumna/advisor from a large SEC chapter (Univ of Arkansas) and a mother of two daughters who were active in the past 5 years, I can tell you that dealing with the issues of a 'super size' chapter can be difficult. Like many things, though, once you get used to it, it becomes 'how we've always done it' and just 'what we do.' And just like other smaller chapters, the girls in the chapter think their chapter is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

It helps that all chapters on campus are in the same predicament (all houses this fall took a quota of/or around 135) The entire chapter is at the 325 mark. (the good news is that we are adding two groups this fall!)

Big issues - getting your national people to realize your chapter requires some flexibility in following hardline mandates. For example, my biggest beef, initiation. The 6 week new member period puts added pressure on the pledge class and the members to bond, find big sisters, etc. How do 130+ girls get to know each other in such a short time? How do the members get to know them? PLUS, the biggie, scheduling initiation around big campus events (SEC football, hello!) is a near impossibility. Any requests that have been made to extend the new member period by two weeks (to get closer to Thanksgiving and away from football season) have been refused. This small step would make a huge difference for a large chapter like ours. Even making some minor adjustments in the initiation ceremony would help but that has not been allowed either. (I am sure you can imagine how very, very tough it is to get through all of the initiation ritual in a timely fashion.)

With regard to finding ways for the girls to get to know each other, the chapter came up with a great idea (and one I believe was also done at other houses). In addition to the regular new member meetings, the new member chair chose Owl Leaders to function as mentors and small group leaders. The pledge class was then divided into small groups of 12 or so. Each week the Owl Leaders held an event/activity for a different small group. The members of the small groups also changed each week allowing the new members to get to know a different group from their class each week. They went bowling, ate pizza, made sundaes, hung out at a members apt and watched movies, etc. This really worked well.

I think retention is not as big of a problem as you would think. In fact, in percentages, it is probably only slightly higher than a chapter about half its size. Even when I pledged, and the whole chapter was about 125, we still lost a girl or two or three each year.

I could expound on many facets of this size chapter - and I might end up sounding negative - so I won't continue because that would not be fair to these wonderful chapters. Suffice it to say, that this size chapter is her own special breed!

BUT...I do want to stress that the sisterhood, the funny memories, the camaraderie, etc are all still there. Sure, not everyone saw the house mom back her car into the dumpster and all the trash fell on her car, but you heard about it, it's your house, she's your house mom, and pretty soon you are re-telling it like you were right there!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

Big issues - getting your national people to realize your chapter requires some flexibility in following hardline mandates. For example, my biggest beef, initiation. The 6 week new member period puts added pressure on the pledge class and the members to bond, find big sisters, etc. How do 130+ girls get to know each other in such a short time? How do the members get to know them? PLUS, the biggie, scheduling initiation around big campus events (SEC football, hello!) is a near impossibility. Any requests that have been made to extend the new member period by two weeks (to get closer to Thanksgiving and away from football season) have been refused. This small step would make a huge difference for a large chapter like ours. Even making some minor adjustments in the initiation ceremony would help but that has not been allowed either. (I am sure you can imagine how very, very tough it is to get through all of the initiation ritual in a timely fashion.)

Have you all (i.e. the Arkansas Panhel you all) thought of asking the school to be the "bad guy"? That is, asking them to request that groups not schedule major events like initiation during football season. I'm sure they could come up with some BS excuse as to why that would sound good and would take the pressure off.

[DubaiSis]

And by the way, I didn't take your "rant" as negative. It was interesting to hear the challenges that most chapters don't think of. I'm chuckling to myself thinking of back at my initiation when we held it in the middle of the night. But you'd either have to start before dark or end after sunrise! But most of our stuff that was time consuming was chapter specific and went away when initiation had to happen during daylight hours.

I can appreciate the various nationals wanting to stick to a fixed system, but when you are talking 5 times larger pledge classes than the national average (I'm guessing a national average of around 30, but it's probably closer to 20), I think some accommodation can be made. 6 weeks plus 1 week for every 20th new member beyond 50? That seems fair and something they can stick to without worrying about hazing or slowly edging back to semester long pledge periods.

It will be interesting to see how it goes at Arkansas when your pledge classes start to shrink back down again and how the shrinking pains go. And is anyone guessing 2 more chapters come on in 2014 or 15?

[gee_ess]

Dubais and 33 -

You both bring up good suggestions! I cannot speak for Panhell - I think they are busy with their own issues to take on anymore. We only recently (within the past 5 years) managed to get them to do away with compounding, yes COMPOUNDING, fines that were levied against sorority members who had active PNM Facebook friends during recruitment. That could mean that one girl(or in KKgs case, the house) could accumulate several thousand dollars in fines for EACH GIRL. Thankfully, that rule was thrown out - but not before it had been in place for about three years.

Truthfully, AR Panhell really does 'get it' with regard to these large houses. They work well with the groups and everyone helps each other. For example, it has been an all out effort to bring new groups on campus. Every house on campus wanted this, begged for this. I can only hope we work to bring another one or two on soon. We had 5 present and two were chosen, so others are willing to come on despite the cost.

The national people? Well, I really don't think they do 'get it' as much as those who are dealing with it daily. I am not implying that they don't care. It is just a hard thing to wrap your mind around if you don't work with it all the time. Again, to be fair, I do think the chokehold is loosening some, and as I write this, I can acknowledge that possibly national experienced the same growing pains that we did and are now working to adjust.

With regard to any 'shrinking pains,' I don't think we will really have any to speak of. The growing happened to quickly that we can drop down with ease. My oldest pledged in '06 - had 75 in her class. My youngest pledged in '09 with 95. And this class of '11 had 135. So, if we just dropped to the '09 number, it would be a breath of fresh air.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

Dubais and 33 -

You both bring up good suggestions! I cannot speak for Panhell - I think they are busy with their own issues to take on anymore. We only recently (within the past 5 years) managed to get them to do away with compounding, yes COMPOUNDING, fines that were levied against sorority members who had active PNM Facebook friends during recruitment. That could mean that one girl(or in KKgs case, the house) could accumulate several thousand dollars in fines for EACH GIRL. Thankfully, that rule was thrown out - but not before it had been in place for about three years.

Truthfully, AR Panhell really does 'get it' with regard to these large houses. They work well with the groups and everyone helps each other. For example, it has been an all out effort to bring new groups on campus. Every house on campus wanted this, begged for this. I can only hope we work to bring another one or two on soon. We had 5 present and two were chosen, so others are willing to come on despite the cost.

The national people? Well, I really don't think they do 'get it' as much as those who are dealing with it daily. I am not implying that they don't care. It is just a hard thing to wrap your mind around if you don't work with it all the time. Again, to be fair, I do think the chokehold is loosening some, and as I write this, I can acknowledge that possibly national experienced the same growing pains that we did and are now working to adjust.

With regard to any 'shrinking pains,' I don't think we will really have any to speak of. The growing happened to quickly that we can drop down with ease. My oldest pledged in '06 - had 75 in her class. My youngest pledged in '09 with 95. And this class of '11 had 135. So, if we just dropped to the '09 number, it would be a breath of fresh air.

Could you do initiation like graduation? Inspiration together Monday, Liberal Arts majors initiation Tuesday and Science/Engineering majors Wednesday? Bigs go on the day their little is initiating and everyone else could sign up for one day or the other? Fancy celebration Dinner Wednesday night at the house? It would mean more work for the Rituals chair and girls with speaking parts, but it would make it easier to find a location.

[gee_ess]

Originally Posted by HQWest

Could you do initiation like graduation? Inspiration together Monday, Liberal Arts majors initiation Tuesday and Science/Engineering majors Wednesday? Bigs go on the day their little is initiating and everyone else could sign up for one day or the other? Fancy celebration Dinner Wednesday night at the house? It would mean more work for the Rituals chair and girls with speaking parts, but it would make it easier to find a location.

A good idea, but probably wouldn't work because that would create problems for the part of ritual that involves alumnae participation.

They made some adjustments this year that helped but it is still, as you can imagine, an exhausting experience. I have sworn off attending any initiations after participating for my two daughters! It's just too much for this old woman!