Beanies on Pledges?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No.

I disagree with your assessment of beanies and I also disagree with thinking you can tell someone what hazing is for their GLO.

Right, because state law and university policies are totally irrelevant, if my GLO says something is okay. Like it or not, there are things that we all agree are hazing.

In the case of beanies, I didn't say it was black-and-white. I said that it was arguably hazing, in a way that pledge pins are not. That is why it fell out of fashion around the same time that universities and/or the legal system started to crack down on hazing.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Beanie = embarrassing attire = hazing
Pledge pin = not embarrassing attire = not hazing

A completely subjective distinction. Which means, as a practical matter, a completely unenforceable and undefensible distinction. Who decides that beanies = embarrassing attire? What if the wearer isn't embarrassed? What if, on that campus, pledge beanies are considered a cool and fun tradition (see agzg's post)?

As has been said ad nauseum, different organizations and campuses have different definitions of what constitutes hazing. (That leaves aside state laws, which would never cover this.) If one wants to say "in my organization" or "on my campus this would be considered hazing," fine. But I just won't buy a general assertion that having pledges wear beanies is hazing (or arguably hazing).

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Beanies never went out of style.

Is it a sign of just how old I am that the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread was:



Oh, how I wanted a beany-copter so I could fly like Beany Boy.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Is it a sign of just how old I am that the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread was:



Oh, how I wanted a beany-copter so I could fly like Beany Boy.

LOL. I heart MysticCat.

I wear different types of beanies year-round including spring and summer beanies. When it gets colder, I will be wearing felt and non-felt beanies for the fall and winter. I hope no one considers them embarassing attire. I can tolerate being forced to wear embarassing attire. God forbid CHOOSING to wear embarassing attire. I wonder how my family and friends who wear beanies for cultural or religious reasons (even if they technically have different names) feel.

[AZTheta]

Well... not sure about the hazing issue, honestly, because we've all trotted down those avenues in other threads.

I just have this to say: I still have my beanie from Brownies. And I even have a picture of my Girl Scout Troop from either 3rd or 4th grade, and believe it or not, the majority of us still talk to each other. Seriously. And I looked dorky in a beanie then, but maybe I should try again?

No.

[Senusret I]

The threshold for attire-as-hazing is the wearing of attire that is not normally in good taste -- not attire that is embarrassing.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

The threshold for attire-as-hazing is the wearing of attire that is not normally in good taste -- not attire that is embarrassing.

Maybe. Again, this can vary.

My org defines hazing as

"[a]ny activity or situation that creates fear, mental distress, or undue apprehension in a member; harasses or degrades a member; or an activity which injures or threatens to injure a member’s physical or emotional well being; or any other activities which are not consistent with fraternal ritual or are considered a violation of the policies or regulations of a chapter’s educational institution, or state law."

By that definition, I think the essential question would be whether any clothing could be considered "degrading" or could "threaten" the probationary member's "emotional well being." (Indeed, the list of examples includes: "Requiring members to wear degrading or unusual clothing.")

By contrast, the NPC has adopted a statement that defines hazing (in part) as "any action or situation with or without consent which recklessly, intentionally or unintentionally . . . causes discomfort, embarrassment, harassment or ridicule . . . ." So that policy does indeed seem to have "embarrassment" as a threshhold.

There are many, many different definitions of hazing out there.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by AzTheta

Well... not sure about the hazing issue, honestly, because we've all trotted down those avenues in other threads.

I just have this to say: I still have my beanie from Brownies. And I even have a picture of my Girl Scout Troop from either 3rd or 4th grade, and believe it or not, the majority of us still talk to each other. Seriously. And I looked dorky in a beanie then, but maybe I should try again?

No.

Ugh Brownies, remember how all the clothing was brown and orange? It wasn't the 1970's when I was in Brownies but it sure felt like it. I know I have my brown jumper and orange snap tie in my basement back home. I even remember the shirts had a pattern with brown and orange GS symbols. Then when I became a junior there was this unfortunate pants and vest combo, or vest with skirt. We had to have white Keds with white socks, and I distinctly remember an emergency trip to Woolworth's on West Portal before we had an event at St. Anne's for a girl in my troop.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

The threshold for attire-as-hazing is the wearing of attire that is not normally in good taste -- not attire that is embarrassing.

I know many schools had rules about what certain classes could wear, and where they could sit or occupy spaces on campus.

There are plenty of things I find embarrassing as well as in poor taste and I see people choosing to wear them. Guess they haze themselves.

[Drolefille]

All I have to add is that hats look ridiculous on me and I'm fairly certain a beanie would look doubly so.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

All I have to add is that hats look ridiculous on me and I'm fairly certain a beanie would look doubly so.

If you expressed that to a sorority and they made you wear a hat or a beanie, that would DEFINITELY be hazing.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

If you expressed that to a sorority and they made you wear a hat or a beanie, that would DEFINITELY be hazing.

I even knitted a hat and it looks REALLY silly on me. I am missing out on a whole genre of style.

On the plus side, I knitted a hat. So I have skills... kinda.

/got nothing tonight, although I'm curious about what kind of beanies you wear DrPhil, I'm guessing they're not the same as the 'frosh', brownie or propeller beanies I'm picturing in my head. But that exhausts my beanie knowledge.

ETA: I googled beanies and totally own several 'beanies' that I have worn in the winter to keep warm despite their silly look on me.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Ugh Brownies, remember how all the clothing was brown and orange? It wasn't the 1970's when I was in Brownies but it sure felt like it. I know I have my brown jumper and orange snap tie in my basement back home.

Aw, I like brown and orange.. Orange is my favorite color! I was actually disappointed when I moved up and had to wear green. Then much later, ironically, I joined AST. Lol. I love green, but orange is definitely still my fav. Unfortunately, there are no NPCs that use the color orange!

Now, regarding the topic at hand.. By "embarrassing," I don't think the NPC and NPHC were referring to having to wear a pledge pin.. Or beanie.. Or whatever. I'm sure they were thinking more along the lines of being forced to do something that's most certainly humiliating (I won't even list examples). But hey, it's all subjective, right?

Honestly, I wasn't always comfortable walking through the student union, or across campus to the chapel in my whites for our ritual ceremonies. I was even asked a few times by guys if I was a nursing student.. And of course they laughed as they passed by.. But I'd never accuse the sisters/sorority of hazing me because I HAD to wear that.

Now, if someone told me, "You'll wear those clothes around campus, otherwise we'll beat your ass and force you to drink 'til you pass out," then that's a different story. And if those guys wearing beanies are meeting with similar threats and consequnces, then yes, it's hazing. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of guys who are all wearing the same thing.. Like all of the Thetas on bid day.. Or all of the Tri Deltas at initiation.

[ElieM]

I have to say the Class beanies they wore in Mona Lisa Smile were adorable