A disconnect with legacies?

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

I do recognize and agree with you that a "top rushing chapter" usually pledges their own legacies, but that never stopped me from trying!

This is something I try to educate my girls on every year. Just because a PNm is a legacy to another chapter on campus does not mean we give up on her. We just recruit her harder. Just like with us, she is not guaranteed a bid to her legacy chapter and she should be warmly recruited at our functions.

[IndianaSigKap]

During the three years that I participated in rush as an active member, I often helped with the Panhel paperwork. All three years, Theta had over 100 legacies going through. One of the years, Kappa had over 100 legacies. Depending on the geographic area, certain chapters will always have a ton of legacies come through. One of the things that we did as a chapter was to invite legacies and PNMs with letters of rec to dinner or lunch at the chapter house. It helped us give the legacies extra consideration because we got to know them for a longer period of time in a less stressful setting.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

I honestly think the "more legacies going through than quota" is not very often true. Honestly, even with Chi Omega (the largest NPC group) it is simply not often the case.

OK so the researcher jumps into the convo: need.more.data. Can't make a broad generalization.

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

It depends on the chapter. Some chapters at certain schools are very legacy heavy, even here in the northeast.

As well as here at AZ. Without divulging specifics or crossing any lines, I can share that we have more than enough verified legacies registered for recruitment to take a quota of 70+.

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

During the three years that I participated in rush as an active member, I often helped with the Panhel paperwork. All three years, Theta had over 100 legacies going through. One of the years, Kappa had over 100 legacies. Depending on the geographic area, certain chapters will always have a ton of legacies come through. One of the things that we did as a chapter was to invite legacies and PNMs with letters of rec to dinner or lunch at the chapter house. It helped us give the legacies extra consideration because we got to know them for a longer period of time in a less stressful setting.

I don't understand the bolded. Can you elaborate? Is this an informal recruitment/COB situation? If we did that in our current recruitment set-up, we'd be slapped upside the head with so many recruitment infractions we'd be seeing the Milky Way.

[Benzgirl]

Legacy means different things to different people. Speaking for those I know, most college-aged girls don't care if they are a legacy unless the chapter is one of the "top" chapters on the campus where they are attending. If they are a legacy to a struggling chapter, do you think there will be a bond? Absolutely not.

While I am friends with women who themselves are legacies (or in some cases double-legacies) and they joke about their daughters becoming triple legacies, it all depends on the individual or family.

I'm an acquaintance of a woman who was in one of the top chapters at Ohio State when I was there. While that chapter is still very strong, neither of her daughters even preferenced that sorority. Why? Things change over time and legacy isn't as important to everyone. I just remember when the first daughter pledged, the mother wrote on her FB page, "I told her she could pledge any chapter except ABC". I had to laugh because those two chapters plus the one that the daughters pledged were considered the three strongest at OSU when I was in school, and they were "rivals".

[IndianaSigKap]

At Indiana, we have spring deferred rush that occurs in January before second semester starts. The chapters all have formal dinner at least 2 nights a week, many have 3 or 4. By formal dinner, I mean pin attire, china, waiters, prayer song the beginning, another song before dessert was served and then dismissed by house mother. During the first semester, we were not on silence. Silence did not start until the week before the open house round of rush. Until silence we could invite PNMs to dinner at the chapter house. We typically invited legacies, girls we had recs for, girls from other campus organizations, classes or hometowns. In fact, I hosted girls a lot. I had at least one guest a week during the whole first semester until silence. It was a commonly accepted practice there, all chapters did it. I attended dinner at several chapters before I rushed.

[MaggieXi]

At the school I help out with, it's always interesting to see what organizations have more legacies come through because it's listed on their registration. There are 2 organizations that always have 10-20 legacies come through every year, where as other chapters might only have about 5 max. This campus's quota is typically in the 30-45 range.

I have also seen PNMs not list their legacy affiliation because they either did not want to be part of that group on this campus or they felt that they wanted a fair shot at all groups. Then on bid day, you come to find out from an alum or the PNM herself that she was a legacy.

I also can't stand "legacy poaching". Mainly going after a legacy of your rival just because you want to screw them over. If the legacy really likes the other group than that's fine and it's her decision.

[SWTXBelle]

Part of the education of our sorority members has to be to instill a more panhellenic spirit. I believe myself second to none in my love for Gamma Phi. However, I know that each and every one of the other 25 NPC group could offer my daughters every bit as much love, leadership training, sisterhood and fun as Gamma Phi.

I still hope to get at least one Gamma Phi, but if I don't, I'm okay with that. My youngest wants to go to a school which doesn't have Gamma Phi, so she'll probably end up a ZTA, Phi Mu or Chi O (if really great recs and contacts count)- or maybe even one of the others. I would be thrilled no matter which one.

[ASUADPi]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Part of the education of our sorority members has to be to instill a more panhellenic spirit. I believe myself second to none in my love for Gamma Phi. However, I know that each and every one of the other 25 NPC group could offer my daughters every bit as much love, leadership training, sisterhood and fun as Gamma Phi.

I still hope to get at least one Gamma Phi, but if I don't, I'm okay with that. My youngest wants to go to a school which doesn't have Gamma Phi, so she'll probably end up a ZTA, Phi Mu or Chi O (if really great recs and contacts count)- or maybe even one of the others. I would be thrilled no matter which one.

I feel exactly the same way. Of course I would love for my future daughter (who right now is an egg) went ADPi. But if she didn't, I'd be happy and completely support whichever chapter she chose. I'd be the surrogate ABC mom who is actually an ADPi. Just because ADPi was right for me doesn't mean it will be right for my daughter.

As for the legacies, when I was in AZ, I saw way to often legacies cut so bad because they listed their legacy status and most of the other chapters "assumed" that the PNM would "go her legacy chapter". That mentality is the hinderance. They shouldn't assume because she is a legacy she is going to go that chapter.

What about the legacies that clearly don't fit in with the chapter? Or the legacies with not-so-great GPAs and no activities. My chapter would definitely chose a gorgeous, 4.0 GPA, student leader over a legacy with mediocre grades, no activities, who doesn't seem especially interested in us. I think it goes both ways. Just because you're a legacy, doesn't mean you deserve to be a member of a chapter. Yes, we may give you the benefit of the doubt or an extra chance, but if a legacy doesn't click with us, we won't give her a bid.

[NutBrnHair]

Originally Posted by NUKaydee

Yes, we may give you the benefit of the doubt or an extra chance, but if a legacy doesn't click with us, we won't give her a bid.

And that's all I'm asking.

[AlwaysSAI]

^^^I am almost speechless to those statements.

I know all NPCs have different policies, but aren't chapter advisers involved on some level when it come to legacies? If not, the adviser could at least council the chapter on how to consider legacies. Keeping MegaLegLindsey as long as a chapter can without having to bid her (ie--cut before prefs) is a courtsey, I think, was earned through her mom's dedication.

If I am able to continue to stay involved with AGD, I would hope my involvement would cause a chapter to give my (not yet conceived) daughter serious consideration.

[AOEforme]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

If not, the adviser could at least council the chapter on how to consider legacies. Keeping MegaLegLindsey as long as a chapter can without having to bid her (ie--cut before prefs) is a courtsey, I think, was earned through her mom's dedication.

If the chapter is really not interested in the legacy, this would almost be worse. You're taking away a visit to a chapter that may love to have that woman and you are stringing her along.

----
When I was president, we always reviewed the legacy policy at important points during recruitment and the subsequent membership selection process, but that was as far as I went to "force" it.

I think if a girl only gets a bid because she's a legacy, you start down a bad road. If Legacy has a bad experience in her chapter (because she really doesn't belong there), you risk alienating both her and her active mother or sister. It's better for her to find a fit where she truly belongs.

If that's the legacy chapter, wonderful. That's where I'm hoping my daughter(s) will end up. However, I'd rather have the opportunity to bond with my daughters over our fabulous experiences as sorority women than over a dismal experience as a member of my sorority.

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by AOEforme

If the chapter is really not interested in the legacy, this would almost be worse. You're taking away a visit to a chapter that may love to have that woman and you are stringing her along.

Of course, there are obviously these cases and cases where the legacy isn't interested in the chapter. I was looking at it from the stand point that the chapter should make every effort to get to know the legacy. (And, now I'm remembering that most NPCs have in their policy that the legacy must be invited to at least one invitational round)

Originally Posted by AOEforme

However, I'd rather have the opportunity to bond with my daughters over our fabulous experiences as sorority women than over a dismal experience as a member of my sorority.

YES! This is a perfect way to put it.

[AXOrushadvisor]

I have been doing the recruitment gig for a REALLY long time and I will tell you that legacies are always a sticky subject. It does take a lot of education for the Chapter to understand what a legacy can do and be especially if the legacy's mom is still involved and active in the sorority. Being a legacy can sometimes be a kiss of the death for some women going through recruitment especially if they have that entitled attitude. At the end of the day it is up to the Chapter to decide who they want to bid for membership, but it is my belief that they should make that choice wisely.

There has been so many things that have changed over the years in regards to recruitment. A lot of Moms think that if your a legacy it is a guaranteed bid (is that how it was in the olden days of the 70's and 80's?). And for some reason there are some Moms who think if you have made it through round 3 that your a auto invite to pref? As much education that needs to go on with the Chapter the Moms need to educate their daughters. I'm amazed sometimes when legacies go through recruitment and we don't know it until they tell us in a recruitment party?!

I have received tons of calls over the years. One from the Mom who sent her daughter carnations the night before pref- we released her daughter after round 3. Or the one who thinks because their daughter is a legacy that they are automatically in- some of these are nice calls others not so nice. It always breaks my heart to get the calls from the Moms who are in tears over their daughters being released.

I have a daughter who is trying to decide right now if she wants to play volleyball or join a sorority in college. I don't care what she decides to do. If she does decide that she wants to be in a sorority I will educate her on the system. She will be fully prepared. If there is an AXO house we will make a visit and I will be in contact with the Advisor. She will also be armed with recs from every Chapter EVEN if it is on a non competitive campus. She will have all the tools she will need for a successful recruitment. Getting a bid to a Chapter will, however, be up to her. I will also tell you that it would be much easier for me to have my daughter release my Chapter then the other way around. I know my daughter is the total package and for her to be released from AXO would be a BIG bitter pill for me to swallow.

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

(is that how it was in the olden days of the 70's and 80's?).

Not from the mid-80's anyway. Our policy, which I think still stands is they had to be invited back once. And this tells me that any mother who has a daughter going through recruitment now should not be so surprised or devastated at the process. Grandma, who did (I suppose this myth was true at SOME point in sorority history) keep all legacies, ok. Maybe she can be angry and confused, but Mom shouldn't be. ESPECIALLY if she was in the "top" chapter at super competitive southern school. These schools have been that competitive for YEARS and I'm sure they were making these kinds of cuts even back then.