Cheating Scandal in Atlanta Public Schools

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I doubt it was just loser teachers and staff who were too darn lazy and wanted to misappropriate funds. But, if people insist that's what the issue is, why are these schools being given teachers and staff who are lazy losers who want to misappropriate funds?
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Who is insisting this?

I think it was caused by a county office and superintendent who wanted the appearance of achievement and the accolades that went with it, even though they had no faith in their staff or in their students. And they created the pressure for everyone else. I think there are probably a small number of teachers and principals, as there were elsewhere in the state, who would have been willing to cheat anyway because as individuals they wanted to look good or wanted their kids to look good. But I have no reason to think those individuals, independent of the corrupt county office and the pressure the county office created, would have been overrepresented in APS.

There are very similar districts in the Atlanta area (and in other urban areas of the state) that have the demographics and history that I think your are describing, and they didn't have similar wide spread problems with cheating. So it's kind of hard to think that APS's issues were caused by larger social issues that might seem to excuse the county leadership when other very similar districts were able to resist.

AGDee, we're not seeing transfers between districts down here, even at similar schools who didn't cheat and were labeled Needs Improvement. Maybe people don't realize they can request them. But because it isn't happening, I doubt that presented a tangible enough fear in the leadership to drive the pressure. I think you're looking at people who got tired of people thinking they were in charge of "bad" school, wanted to look good, and were willing to do whatever it took, even if it meant cheating first the kids and then everyone else. Something was uniquely, at least for Georgia, wrong in this system, I suspect it's going to come back to the superintendent, although I think it may have been even more her core staff that were responsible.

ETA: We've got other dysfunctional systems in Georgia for sure, regardless of the history and demographics, but in most of them, individual teachers are still apparently expected to act ethically and still do apparently for the most part, even when the leadership is nutty. I think the difference is that the leadership in APS, maybe aided by previous dysfunction, was able to go educationally Enron.

[axoalum]

UGAalum- I agree with your assessment. Beverly Hall's arrogance is off the charts unbelievable. And I just watched a press conference on the noon news in which 3 of the parties named in the investigation as cheaters flatly denied any involvement. Where does it go from here? IMO the majority of the teachers in the APS want to do a good job and sincerely care if the children in their charge are successful. Should they do a clean sweep of the administration including the school board? Not sounding like a bad idea at this point.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by axoalum

UGAalum- I agree with your assessment. Beverly Hall's arrogance is off the charts unbelievable. And I just watched a press conference on the noon news in which 3 of the parties named in the investigation as cheaters flatly denied any involvement. Where does it go from here? IMO the majority of the teachers in the APS want to do a good job and sincerely care if the children in their charge are successful. Should they do a clean sweep of the administration including the school board? Not sounding like a bad idea at this point.

I think removing an elected board might prove tricky, but it's going to depend on what can be proven that they knew about, I guess. And if you've driven around in Atlanta lately to see various, "APS Board, Step Up or Step Down" signs, it may prove the case that they all just get voted out over the next few elections anyway. But the thing about Atlanta politics is that you never can tell: most metro area votes are, I think, kind of amazed at the personalities on the board and city council, but that's who won the last elections.

I think I favor criminal charges and professional sanctions for anyone that can be proven, either in court or by the Professional Standard Commission, to have participated in the cheating or the cover up. And then, you take the action that would follow conviction on a case by case basis. If you've lost your certificate, then obviously they've got to let you go. If you've been convicted of fraud, I suspect that you'd be let go from your administrative position. (But I'm not sure the voters of Atlanta wouldn't re-elect you.)

I have the feeling, though, that if there's an effort just to completely clean house, some innocent people who sincerely care about the kids and doing the right thing will be thrown out as well. It's possible that new talent would be attracted to a restructure APS, though, so who knows?

[axoalum]

But the thing about Atlanta politics is that you never can tell: most metro area votes are, I think, kind of amazed at the personalities on the board and city council, but that's who won the last elections.

That might be a big part of it right there. It seem like the cray-cray is unleashed every election day and the voters keep making the same sad choices (my opinion only). Two words: Emma Darnell.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Who is insisting this?

General comment. The point is there are overarching issues that led to the cheating.

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I think it was caused by a county office and superintendent who wanted the appearance of achievement and the accolades that went with it, even though they had no faith in their staff or in their students. And they created the pressure for everyone else.

This is an example of an overarching issue.

In this case, I change my post to:
"...if people insist that's what the issue is, why do these school districts have county offices and superintendents who only want the appearance of appearance and accolades; have no faith in teachers, staff, and students; and who overtly or covertly encourage cheating, misappropriation of funds, or whatever else? That type of thing wouldn't fly in certain school districts."

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

There are very similar districts in the Atlanta area (and in other urban areas of the state) that have the demographics and history that I think your are describing, and they didn't have similar wide spread problems with cheating.

Cheating is not the end-all-and-be-all, whether districts are caught or not. This thread just happens to be about cheating but, as my post said, I am not too concerned with that. The issues that are pervasive in these school districts manifest themselves in different ways.

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I think the difference is that the leadership in APS, maybe aided by previous dysfunction, was able to go educationally Enron.

Right so there is something going on that is impacting APS just as it does districts with similar dynamics across the country. Whether it is cheating or some other observable outcome, there is an outcome.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

In this case, I change my post to:
"...if people insist that's what the issue is, why do these school districts have county offices and superintendents who only want the appearance of appearance and accolades; have no faith in teachers, staff, and students; and who overtly or covertly encourage cheating, misappropriation of funds, or whatever else? ."

Because the voters in those districts aren't minding the store? Because the same voters graduated from these schools or schools like them? Because the culture of mismanagement has run that way so long and people who have resources* elect not to live in the districts most impacted by the mismanagement and corruption? Because we decided that people even in poor and minority districts have the right to self government in elected officials and are reluctant to intervene in a paternalistic fashion, short of the elected officials or their appointees actually having broken the law?

I don't think there's any magic bullet to fix any of that.

But we can insist that public employees not cheat and commit fraud, and we can take action when they actually do break the law or violate clear professional standards.

And that improves things a little for the kids. They and their teachers the following year get a more accurate picture of their skill level and they can know where to being with real instruction.

*Actually, I think it's only people with middle class level resources who choose certain districts. People with even more resources opt out completely and go to private schools.

[UGAalum94]

http://www.albanyherald.com/home/hea...t_on_CRCT.html

The state is going to complete its investigation of Dougherty County school, too.

This is the main Albany, Georgia system down in the southwest corner of the state.

It's interesting to read the full comments because they mention equal protection and concerns about seeming to single out Atlanta.

ETA:http://www.ajc.com/news/suspicious-t...ad-296490.html
This supports the idea that there's cheating all over.

http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-crct...al-295376.html
This lets one see how different different school systems are in terms of the numbers of classrooms flagged.

http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ayp2010/search.asp
And this, if you are super nerdy, would allow you to look at the demographics of the test takers in all the districts.

Only looking at a couple of districts, it looks like there's more cheating in districts with more poor kids, which I think most people might expect because there'd be a perception that the kids started out behind so teachers would be panicky*. But I don't think you see too many whole systems, even with a lot of poor schools, with high rates of flagged classroom. *I think people would expect to see the same about cheating all over if having really high scores mattered to the test takers but all that matters with the CRCT is passing.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

And that improves things a little for the kids. They and their teachers the following year get a more accurate picture of their skill level and they can know where to being with real instruction.

If it was that simple there wouldn't have been a perceived need to cheat in the first place.

[Drolefille]

^^ This poster is trying to boost google rankings.

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

^^ This poster is trying to boost google rankings.

I know. I recognize the MO. Trying to create those backlinks is hard work...and pricey.