Cheating Scandal in Atlanta Public Schools

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

And that improves things a little for the kids. They and their teachers the following year get a more accurate picture of their skill level and they can know where to being with real instruction.

If it was that simple there wouldn't have been a perceived need to cheat in the first place.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Only looking at a couple of districts, it looks like there's more cheating in districts with more poor kids....

And as I previously stated cheating and other issues are more common in predominantly poor districts across the country.

Districts can pretend it's an issue with the specific people involved and focus on criminal and professional sanctions. But, since these districts have histories of being horrible multitaskers, I hope they do some sanction but put the most emphasis on reducing the perceived need for cheating and other negative outcomes.

[UGAalum94]

I don't think I denied that there was likely to be more cheating in districts with more poor kids, especially as in regard to basic proficiency tests.. When it comes to cheating across the board, I think it's as likely to happen anywhere. It might be more likely to happen with affluent kids because they have more resources to spend on it, like paying someone to take their SAT.

You can talk all you want about other outcomes, but you probably can't deliver much or people would be doing it. If there were better ways of doing things that ensured success in the districts we are talking about, why don't you think people have used them?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

You can talk all you want about other outcomes, but you probably can't deliver much or people would be doing it. If there were better ways of doing things that ensured success in the districts we are talking about, why don't you think people have used them?

People across the country have done it and are doing it. It is relatively rare but not because those who can enact change are clueless about what can be done. It is a rarity for other reasons...but people want to concentrate on some cheaters. Either way, the biggest lesson for APS to learn from this is not that there are criminal and professional sanctions to hand out.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

And as I previously stated cheating and other issues are more common in predominantly poor districts across the country.

Districts can pretend it's an issue with the specific people involved and focus on criminal and professional sanctions. But, since these districts have histories of being horrible multitaskers, I hope they do some sanction but put the most emphasis on reducing the perceived need for cheating and other negative outcomes.

At this point, it's out of the district's hands. We're talking a state investigation and perhaps a federal fraud investigation with federal charges.

I think that's going to do wonders to cut down on cheating, both because corrupt district personnel have to worry about the ethical standards of the outside world but also because it will give teachers who never wanted to cheat a safe haven when they are being pressured to do so.

The Georgia cheating scandal has already caused testing procedures to be reviewed and in some cases changed, which I think will eliminate the opportunity for the relatively small percentage of teachers who might have tried to cheat just to make themselves look good or because they couldn't deal with good faith concern about what their relatively low test scores meant about their students' learning.

The big thing that I think you are ignoring is that the negative stakes in Atlanta were actually really low, except for the internal craziness in the district. Surrounding counties had a lot of Needs Improvement schools and the sky didn't fall. There didn't seem a big push for expensive transfers in district or without. There's was no big loss of funds. Sure, it was probably embarrassing, but as countless other schools and districts showed, ultimately other than the label, not much changed. As far as I know, we've yet to have a single school in Georgia even get "restructured."

All it should take to do away with the perceived need for cheating is for the district personnel quit scaring the hell out of people about scores that didn't really matter that much, except as they indicated student learning and secondarily resulted in a label that got you a gold star or black mark.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

People across the country have done it and are doing it. It is relatively rare but not because those who can enact change are clueless about what can be done. It is a rarity for other reasons...but people want to concentrate on some cheaters. Either way, the biggest lesson for APS to learn from this is not that there are criminal and professional sanctions to hand out.

Show me. Link a few.

[Drolefille]

^^ This poster is trying to boost google rankings.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by BraveMaroon

So many thoughts here... I'll preface this by saying I grew up in Atlanta and went to public schools in Fulton County.

1. APS needs to start recruiting teachers from Gwinnett, Cobb and Dekalb (and beyond) to come in and teach. Not teach for the CRCT, but to come in and get the basics under control. If they have the basics, the CRCT is much easier.

2. The people in North Fulton who want to break off and become Milton County need to shut the hell up and start becoming part of the solution. Don't like what's going on in South Fulton? Work on it, don't walk away from it. And remember that when you were Milton County during the depression, Fulton incorporated you and saved your ass. Maybe it's time to pay up?

3. Fire every last person who was complicit in the cheating scandal. The message you need to send educators, parents and children is that what happened is not acceptable, and it's not going to happen again.

4. Standardized tests are for the birds. I understand why they're necessary, but really, they're one of many ways to gauge comprehension. They are, to paraphrase John McCain circa 2008, doing microscopic surgery with a chainsaw. As long as there are standardized tests, we will have cheating scandals that were enacted to circumvent the system. It's the American Way!!

Ok, that's all I have to say for now.

you can have Jesus come to a school at attempt to teach, but if it's not being reinforced at home with good parenting pushing academics, not much is gonna change.

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

^^ This poster is trying to boost google rankings.

I know. I recognize the MO. Trying to create those backlinks is hard work...and pricey.

[AnchorAlum]

Originally Posted by BraveMaroon

So many thoughts here... I'll preface this by saying I grew up in Atlanta and went to public schools in Fulton County.

1. APS needs to start recruiting teachers from Gwinnett, Cobb and Dekalb (and beyond) to come in and teach. Not teach for the CRCT, but to come in and get the basics under control. If they have the basics, the CRCT is much easier.

2. The people in North Fulton who want to break off and become Milton County need to shut the hell up and start becoming part of the solution. Don't like what's going on in South Fulton? Work on it, don't walk away from it. And remember that when you were Milton County during the depression, Fulton incorporated you and saved your ass. Maybe it's time to pay up?

3. Fire every last person who was complicit in the cheating scandal. The message you need to send educators, parents and children is that what happened is not acceptable, and it's not going to happen again.

4. Standardized tests are for the birds. I understand why they're necessary, but really, they're one of many ways to gauge comprehension. They are, to paraphrase John McCain circa 2008, doing microscopic surgery with a chainsaw. As long as there are standardized tests, we will have cheating scandals that were enacted to circumvent the system. It's the American Way!!

Ok, that's all I have to say for now.

So I take it you weren't out celebrating with the entire population of Sandy Springs when they succeeded in breaking away from the City of Atlanta?

I used to teach. Bringing in teachers from Cobb and other suburbs won't change Atlanta schools. Parents who begin to value education and make certain they pass that value on to their children by having them at school on time, every day, ready to learn and ready to cooperate with their child's teacher by supporting them far more than they do now.
That goes for any school district, anywhere in this country.

[AnchorAlum]

Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes

It all comes down to money. Admins do take these shortcuts because we're under pressure to have our schools make the API & AYP scores here in California. What blows for us is that if your school does not make them, you get taken over by the state & get lots of money given to your school to purchase computers, ipads for teachers & admins, etc. If your school does make AYP & API scores, you get a pat on the back & no money. I've given the test & looked at it. All I can say is . It's wishful thinking to believe that teachers will be trusted to teach the curriculum around here because of the level of importance placed on testing by admins & district officials.

There have been hints of cheating around here but nothing to the level of Atlanta (at least that's been disclosed).

As for good teaching, teachers no longer have the freedoms to have well-balanced & well-rounded students. For example, at my school, our focus is on reading, writing & math. All art, music & "fluff" curriculum have been cut. We are not allowed to waste time teaching science & social studies after March b/c standardized tests don't test those in the primary grades. LAME!
We have to stick to the curriculum (either HM or Open Court) and that's it. Creativity is NOT encouraged whatsoever. So sad.

Social Studies will by necessity make a comeback in Cali. There is no other way to incorporate learning about all the important historical figures who were gay, which is a mandate just recently passed by the Cali legislature.

NOT a slam, anyone. But that's a fact.

[carnation]

There is unreal pressure on teachers in this state to produce great test scores. Even if your subject isn't being tested, you are pressured: from some school districts (Atlanta, I guess), there's obviously the push to get those scores, whatever it takes. From others, there's the pressure not to screw up the administration of the test. If a kid throws up on a test, there are actually instructions for how you gather up the messed up test (lest you give the puked on test to someone who hasn't seen one yet?) This is an "irregularity" and it can invalidate your whole class's results because now the rest of the class is supposed to be so grossed out that they can't possibly finish testing that day.

Other "irregularities" that got recorded at the last school I taught at: a bunch of ambulances screamed past the school, the dump truck came by and loudly picked up the trash outside one room, a girl got a fit of the giggles, one class was accidentally let out down the hall early, and someone used the copier in a room next to a testing class. It used to be that students wouldn't even notice something like that but the state is so tense about scores that there's a long list of potential irregularities that teachers have to read and watch out for. They have to watch a film about how not to have irregularities and are warned numerous times that their jobs might be on the line if they screw up, even if it's inadvertent.

The teachers were always basket cases by the end of the week.