Where Raucous Is the Norm, Bible Study

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Don't act brand new. You know we all killed a goat, snorted some goat cheese, got high off of goat milk and praised Pan the god just this morning!

Shh... no one's supposed to know!

Don't tell them that we made the new members clean it up, either...

[sherrybaby]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

"...to expand Bible studies and Christian recruiting in fraternities and sororities at mainstream universities."

Proselytizing is exactly what InterVarsity does. I know people who have been spiritually abused by this cult.

Moreover, it is my opinion that (most) GLOs are places where people of different faith systems can come together in a secular community based in values. Whether I am an Alpha or a Teke, I shouldn't have to be recruited to somebody else's faith. Leave it outside of the chapter.

"expanding Bible studies?" sure, that's fine, they're optional forums for sisters and brothers who are interested. "recruiting?" not okay. My faith is not the armed forces.

I agree that InterVarsity is an organization that definitely has the potential to be abused, as do all national faith-based organizations. One campus could have a policy of holding events for members and people who are interested and attracting people just based on their values and actions as a group while another can decide they need to do the "hard-sell" and manipulate or guilt-trip students. Sure, sharing your faith is part of the Gospel, but let Christianity speak for itself. The person who best shares their faith is the person who doesn't even need to tell you they're Christian. They are so radically compassionate and principled, and their actions so embody the Gospel, that you want to ask what makes them different.

I think Bible studies are okay in a chapter, though, although I go to a Christian university so perhaps I don't understand how this can be problematic on more diverse campuses. For my chapter, the Bible study is something that maybe 5-10 members who are interested do on our time, and the only sorority-related thing about it is that we're members. There's no compulsion to go; we mention the meeting times once a semester for any new members, and that's it. I'm sure if someone wanted to start a different faith-based group in our chapter, it would be similar.

[DrPhil]

InterVarsity depends on the people on the campus. There are InterVarsity chapters on some religiously and spiritually diverse campuses that will send out an email but not force the issue on those who don't want to attend the programs. That's how it should be.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by sherrybaby

one of my friends helped found Greek InterVarsity at her school, and I can confidently say she'd hate this article. its tone is ridiculously judgmental..."rub shoulders with the sinners?" I would have a serious problem with anyone in my Bible studies using this kind of language. Just because I don't drink or have sex doesn't make me less of a sinner than someone who does...they may engage in more public behavior but that's no worse than the mean thoughts I might think about someone or the gossip I might spread in a weak moment. Quite frankly, the way this article speaks makes the members of Greek InterVarsity sound down right manipulative. There's a difference between spreading the Gospel by just behaving in a manner that God would want you to among friends and purposely inserting yourself into groups for the sole purpose of preaching at them. This article makes the members of Greek InterVarsity sound only interested in the latter. And guess what? I joined the sorority on campus with the worst "party reputation" and I've found not only that no one judges me at all, but also so many girls share my faith. the assumptions in this article are obnoxious.

This^. It was incredibly demeaning and obnoxious. This is the kind of stuff that turns people off. They're doing themselves a disservice by talking about "rubbing shoulders with the sinners".

[laylo]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

"...to expand Bible studies and Christian recruiting in fraternities and sororities at mainstream universities."

Proselytizing is exactly what InterVarsity does. I know people who have been spiritually abused by this cult.

Moreover, it is my opinion that (most) GLOs are places where people of different faith systems can come together in a secular community based in values. Whether I am an Alpha or a Teke, I shouldn't have to be recruited to somebody else's faith. Leave it outside of the chapter.

I was an InterVarsity leader and I'm sorry that you had that experience, but it is the absolute opposite of my experience on my campus or any of the campuses I worked with. And you never have to be recruited to anything- if you're invited to an event you can simply decline as with anything else you're invited to.

I always find it odd when people tell others to "keep their faith out of xyz". It's essentially telling them to keep themselves out of it, like saying "Keep your culture out of the chapter" or "Keep your background out of the chapter". Why is faith any less legitimate a part of who someone is?

[laylo]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

This^. It was incredibly demeaning and obnoxious. This is the kind of stuff that turns people off. They're doing themselves a disservice by talking about "rubbing shoulders with the sinners".

They didn't say it, though, the Times did. I definitely wouldn't read this as a direct quote.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by laylo

I was an InterVarsity leader and I'm sorry that you had that experience, but it is the absolute opposite of my experience on my campus or any of the campuses I worked with. And you never have to be recruited to anything- if you're invited to an event you can simply decline as with anything else you're invited to.

I always find it odd when people tell others to "keep their faith out of xyz". It's essentially telling them to keep themselves out of it, like saying "Keep your culture out of the chapter" or "Keep your background out of the chapter". Why is faith any less legitimate a part of who someone is?

No one is telling people not to believe in what they want. Your faith should be just that -- YOUR faith. It's not the chapter's.

[DrPhil]

It depends on the dynamics of the chapter. Chapters know when they are religiously diverse and can alienate members whose religions are being silenced. But, most chapters of most GLOs aren't religiously diverse (nor are most diverse based on race and ethnicity, culture, social class, and other ascribed and attained statuses).

Some colleges and universities have places of worship where people of all faiths can worship. The emphasis is on love and devotion for all faiths and silent worship/meditation. Chapters can do the same thing if they want to share religious experiences and faiths in a religiously diverse chapter.

Afterall, all Christians (for example) don't believe the same things and all denominations within Christianity don't believe the same thing. That's one reason why Interfaith and Interdenominational places of worship were created.

[laylo]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

No one is telling people not to believe in what they want. Your faith should be just that -- YOUR faith. It's not the chapter's.

No, but we're not talking about giving sermons in chapter meetings here. If you're friends with someone you're going to end up mentioning things you think are important with them, and possibly inviting them to share those things with you.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by laylo

No, but we're not talking about giving sermons in chapter meetings here.

There are chapters that share religious texts as "daily words" instead of doing more generic inspirational words at chapter meetings. That is fine if the chapter that operates that way also allows members of different religions to share their religious texts as "daily words."

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by laylo

No, but we're not talking about giving sermons in chapter meetings here. If you're friends with someone you're going to end up mentioning things you think are important with them, and possibly inviting them to share those things with you.

That can be done on your own time. The article made it seem as if this group is on a crusade to convert all non-believers and recruit the "right type" of GLO member.

[laylo]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

That can be done on your own time. The article made it seem as if this group is on a crusade to convert all non-believers and recruit the "right type" of GLO member.

It is done on Greek IV members' own time. Nothing has been mentioned about chapter business time. And pretty much all churches and Christian groups want to convert non-believers, whether they make it obvious or not. I think it is often people's negative experiences with religion that cause them to be offended by someone's invitation rather than the inivitation itself. I've had people invite me to plenty of things I didn't believe in and simply declined. There was no need to think they were doing something awful to me.

[AGDee]

The problem is that the way the article is written, these young men and women purposely joined GLOs in order to try to save the existing members. I have a hard time believing that they intended for it to sound that way and I think this is probably a good example of why we are always told not to speak to the media. You never know how your quotes will be used... or misused.

[Xidelt]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that was a craptastic article by the NY Times.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by laylo

I always find it odd when people tell others to "keep their faith out of xyz". It's essentially telling them to keep themselves out of it, like saying "Keep your culture out of the chapter" or "Keep your background out of the chapter". Why is faith any less legitimate a part of who someone is?

There's a difference, though, between keeping your faith out of XYZ and pressuring (or seeming to pressure; remember part of communication is the recipient) someone else to share that faith.