Where Raucous Is the Norm, Bible Study

[laylo]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

"...to expand Bible studies and Christian recruiting in fraternities and sororities at mainstream universities."

Proselytizing is exactly what InterVarsity does. I know people who have been spiritually abused by this cult.

Moreover, it is my opinion that (most) GLOs are places where people of different faith systems can come together in a secular community based in values. Whether I am an Alpha or a Teke, I shouldn't have to be recruited to somebody else's faith. Leave it outside of the chapter.

I was an InterVarsity leader and I'm sorry that you had that experience, but it is the absolute opposite of my experience on my campus or any of the campuses I worked with. And you never have to be recruited to anything- if you're invited to an event you can simply decline as with anything else you're invited to.

I always find it odd when people tell others to "keep their faith out of xyz". It's essentially telling them to keep themselves out of it, like saying "Keep your culture out of the chapter" or "Keep your background out of the chapter". Why is faith any less legitimate a part of who someone is?

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by laylo

I was an InterVarsity leader and I'm sorry that you had that experience, but it is the absolute opposite of my experience on my campus or any of the campuses I worked with. And you never have to be recruited to anything- if you're invited to an event you can simply decline as with anything else you're invited to.

I always find it odd when people tell others to "keep their faith out of xyz". It's essentially telling them to keep themselves out of it, like saying "Keep your culture out of the chapter" or "Keep your background out of the chapter". Why is faith any less legitimate a part of who someone is?

No one is telling people not to believe in what they want. Your faith should be just that -- YOUR faith. It's not the chapter's.

[laylo]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

No one is telling people not to believe in what they want. Your faith should be just that -- YOUR faith. It's not the chapter's.

No, but we're not talking about giving sermons in chapter meetings here. If you're friends with someone you're going to end up mentioning things you think are important with them, and possibly inviting them to share those things with you.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by laylo

No, but we're not talking about giving sermons in chapter meetings here.

There are chapters that share religious texts as "daily words" instead of doing more generic inspirational words at chapter meetings. That is fine if the chapter that operates that way also allows members of different religions to share their religious texts as "daily words."

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by laylo

No, but we're not talking about giving sermons in chapter meetings here. If you're friends with someone you're going to end up mentioning things you think are important with them, and possibly inviting them to share those things with you.

That can be done on your own time. The article made it seem as if this group is on a crusade to convert all non-believers and recruit the "right type" of GLO member.

[laylo]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

That can be done on your own time. The article made it seem as if this group is on a crusade to convert all non-believers and recruit the "right type" of GLO member.

It is done on Greek IV members' own time. Nothing has been mentioned about chapter business time. And pretty much all churches and Christian groups want to convert non-believers, whether they make it obvious or not. I think it is often people's negative experiences with religion that cause them to be offended by someone's invitation rather than the inivitation itself. I've had people invite me to plenty of things I didn't believe in and simply declined. There was no need to think they were doing something awful to me.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by laylo

I always find it odd when people tell others to "keep their faith out of xyz". It's essentially telling them to keep themselves out of it, like saying "Keep your culture out of the chapter" or "Keep your background out of the chapter". Why is faith any less legitimate a part of who someone is?

There's a difference, though, between keeping your faith out of XYZ and pressuring (or seeming to pressure; remember part of communication is the recipient) someone else to share that faith.

[laylo]

Originally Posted by DGTess

There's a difference, though, between keeping your faith out of XYZ and pressuring (or seeming to pressure; remember part of communication is the recipient) someone else to share that faith.

I don't think anything in the article demonstrated these kids putting pressure on non-Christians. People are projecting their own experiences of pressure onto this group.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by laylo

I don't think anything in the article demonstrated these kids putting pressure on non-Christians. People are projecting their own experiences of pressure onto this group.

From the article in question:

(Regarding why the joined a GLO) But many also said they relished the opportunity to spread the Gospel.

The students heard sermons from a pastor who easily segued from “U2 — I love that group” to “I love Jesus” and explored their feelings in small group discussions on challenges to faith and how to start a Bible group in a fraternity or sorority house.

The leaders urged members to stay in the thick of Greek social life, rubbing shoulders with the sinners.

Jesus turned water into wine “to get the party going,” said a young woman who traveled here from Willamette University in Oregon, adding that parties were an opportunity to show that Christianity could be fun.

Kurt Skaggs, a junior at Indiana University, sees himself as something of a missionary. “Some people go to Africa or South America,” he said, explaining his decision to join Sigma Phi Epsilon. “I can go to my frat house, where my single goal is to glorify God and share the Gospel.”

He said that he tried not to be preachy, but that he was not shy about confronting other professed Christians if they started drinking too much or engaged in casual sex.

With other students, Mr. Skaggs hopes simply to start the Christian conversation. “People do open up to you when they’re drunk,” he said. “They ask, ‘Why are you so excited all the time?’ ”

So I feel compelled to ask whether you even read the article, or whether you read it through a lens that caused you to see this as not pressuring at all. But for a non-Christian perspective, when someone says they're a missionary to their fraternity, that's pressuring. As is confronting other Christians who may or may not be of the same denomination as you and share the exact same beliefs as you about their actions. If you turn a party into a preaching mission, that's pressuring.

This article was written to suggest that this was the ONLY thing that IV was about, we know better, but to suggest the article doesn't say that is wrong.

[laylo]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

From the article in question:







So I feel compelled to ask whether you even read the article, or whether you read it through a lens that caused you to see this as not pressuring at all. But for a non-Christian perspective, when someone says they're a missionary to their fraternity, that's pressuring. As is confronting other Christians who may or may not be of the same denomination as you and share the exact same beliefs as you about their actions. If you turn a party into a preaching mission, that's pressuring.

This article was written to suggest that this was the ONLY thing that IV was about, we know better, but to suggest the article doesn't say that is wrong.

Yes, I read the article. My opinion differs from yours in that I don't see sharing as pressuring. Some of those quotes were from the Times, not the students (I highly doubt that they actually think of non-Christians as "the sinners" because that's contradictory to any message I've ever seen from the organization). Most were about creating an event and telling others about what they believe. I don't see how these kinds of events or conversations cause any more pressure than those surrounding any other cause- if you are passionate about it, you want others to join you, and if they don't believe in it, they don't join you.The only thing I saw as pressure was the one about the Christian confronting other Christians.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by laylo

Yes, I read the article. My opinion differs from yours in that I don't see sharing as pressuring. Some of those quotes were from the Times, not the students (I highly doubt that they actually think of non-Christians as "the sinners" because that's contradictory to any message I've ever seen from the organization). Most were about creating an event and telling others about what they believe. I don't see how these kinds of events or conversations cause any more pressure than those surrounding any other cause- if you are passionate about it, you want others to join you, and if they don't believe in it, they don't join you.The only thing I saw as pressure was the one about the Christian confronting other Christians.

If you don't see being a Christian missionary to one's fraternity as pressuring, it's probably because you're a Christian. Were a Muslim student to say that their one purpose in joining a fraternity or sorority was to spread the word of God, your reaction might be different.

Additionally, while most of those are not in quotations, they're clearly paraphrases of statements made by students. "Many also said..." "Adding ..." etc.

[laylo]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

If you don't see being a Christian missionary to one's fraternity as pressuring, it's probably because you're a Christian. Were a Muslim student to say that their one purpose in joining a fraternity or sorority was to spread the word of God, your reaction might be different.

Additionally, while most of those are not in quotations, they're clearly paraphrases of statements made by students. "Many also said..." "Adding ..." etc.

I don't think it would be different- as I said, I've been invited to many things I don't believe in. The word "missionary" means different things to different people. Preaching without invitation, taking away people's choice in whether or not to listen to you, or expressing judgments on their activities is pressure. Saying, "I'm going to have bible study in my room, you're welcome to join," is not pressure in my eyes.