Bridal Plasty.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I answered, "Any woman who hasn't considered it at some point in her life is probably lying."

Only speak for yourself.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by honeychile

"Any woman who hasn't considered it at some point in her life is probably lying."

I think you're probably right.

Originally Posted by Chicago88

My problem with the show is that teens watch these channels and I feel it sends the wrong message to young girls who are especially vulnerable at that age.

This is my problem with the show too. I grew up in an area of Los Angeles that is very concerned with physical appearance. I had a nose job when I was 14 years old. Looking back, I can't believe my parents let me do that. But, the same surgeon who did my nose did my mother's nose and sister's nose. My mother also had an eye lift, my sister wants liposuction and her ears pinned back, I want my nose fixed (it's not quite perfect) and several other things done. It's crazy. It was just been beaten into our brains that beauty and perfection outweigh almost everything else.

I hate seeing young girls going down that road. What I've learned is that often no amount of plastic surgery will be enough.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I think you're probably right.

No, plastic surgery isn't a part of every woman's reality. Across cultures, I wouldn't even say that it is a part of the average woman's reality. It is quite disturbing that you and honeychile think that it is; and that's one reason why a dumb show like Bridalplasty would exist.

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

This is my problem with the show too. I grew up in an area of Los Angeles that is very concerned with physical appearance. I had a nose job when I was 14 years old. Looking back, I can't believe my parents let me do that. But, the same surgeon who did my nose did my mother's nose and sister's nose. My mother also had an eye lift, my sister wants liposuction and her ears pinned back, I want my nose fixed (it's not quite perfect) and several other things done. It's crazy. It was just been beaten into our brains that beauty and perfection outweigh almost everything else.

I hate seeing young girls going down that road. What I've learned is that often no amount of plastic surgery will be enough.

I find this to be extremely sad.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I answered, "Any woman who hasn't considered it at some point in her life is probably lying."

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No, plastic surgery isn't a part of every woman's reality. Across cultures, I wouldn't even say that it is a part of the average woman's reality. It is quite disturbing that you and honeychile think that it is; and that's one reason why a dumb show like Bridalplasty would exist.

I don't believe that it's part of every woman's reality at all. I believe that most women in the United States think something is wrong with their appearance.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I find this to be extremely sad.

As do I.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I don't believe that it's part of every woman's reality at all. I believe that most women in the United States think something is wrong with their appearance.

That is different from saying "any woman who hasn't considered it at some point in her life is probably lying." That assumes that plastic surgery is part of every woman's reality (across social class and socioeconomic status, race and ethnicity, culture, etc.) and that every woman has some issue with their appearance that they even remotely perceive plastic surgery to be a viable alternative/option/good idea/not super stupid unless used to fix an injury or defect.*

*Every woman doesn't have an injury or a defect that they want to fix. And the following are not defects: Someone not liking their nondeformed nose, not liking the wrinkles on their forehead when they raise their eyebrows, not liking aging, and not liking the extra rim of fat on their stomach (which is different than a rim of extra skin).

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I don't believe that it's part of every woman's reality ]at all. I believe that most middle-to-upper class women of privilege in the United States think something is wrong with their appearance.

FTFY.

[Leslie Anne]

I think we're arguing two different things so there isn't going to be any meeting of the minds. I'll leave it at that.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I think we're arguing two different things so there isn't going to be any meeting of the minds. I'll leave it at that.

I think you're right.

I wouldn't say there were a lot of teens getting plastic surgery where I grew up, but I would hazard a guess that a very significant portion of the adult female population has at least had some Botox. I was insultated against it as a child/young teen because I grew up in a family of men except for my mother who doesn't think plastic surgery is wrong, but wouldn't consider it for herself unless she needed it (something that wasn't solely cosmetic). I think whatever is the norm for your area can definitely have an influence. Had I not been in my particular family situation I would probably find Botox/lipo/etc more normal than I do now.

I don't think plastic surgery itself is bad. I used to want a nosejob, ever since I saw Clueless when I was 10 or 11. Having had a horrible time recovering from a very simple procedure, I'm no longer interested, but I still don't like my nose. If I were less of a wimp I would consider it down the road once I could afford it, but I would never want to change my face (or body) so much that I lose it. The danger is that some people can't stop there. As in the Heidis of the world. And this show. I can understand the woman that wants her breasts to look normal. But to get a boatload of surgeries at once for one day seems like a horrible risk to me. Not only is there a danger of dying, there's the danger that all that won't make them happy and that they'll keep going.

And that's where I agree that it's scary that young teen girls are watching shows like this. They need to understand that getting so much work done is not the norm, and that any surgery is something to take seriously.


I used to watch The Swan out of morbid curiosity and I always wondered what the children of those women thought when their mother disappeared before there eyes (physically). Wouldn't that be confusing?

[xomanadaxo]

I think there's a big difference between considering plastic surgery and seriously considering plastic surgery. I've had days where I've looked in the mirror and disliked something about my physical appearance; I may have even wondered what I would look like if I had plastic surgery to correct it. However, just because I have considered it before does not mean I would necessarily do it.

I see value in plastic surgery for correcting serious physical deformities (eg after an accident), or even for someone who has been self-conscious about some feature their entire lives. While ideally I would hope that people could be confident with their appearances as-is, I also don't think it's fair to judge people who chose surgery. It's such a personal choice, and people's beliefs about it are often strongly influenced by their local culture. For example based on my understanding of Leslie Anne's post, she grew up in a culture where plastic surgery was the norm. A 14-year-old getting a nose job would be unheard of where I grew up, but it may be perfectly normal for her hometown.

To put it in a different perspective...
I had really bad buckteeth as a child...cartoon character bad. They stuck out of my mouth all the time, even when my lips were closed. I got teased about it a lot, even by adults (I had a teacher call me "bunny" for an entire year because she said I looked like a cute little bunny rabbit. None of the other kids had nicknames from her.) The older I got, the more self-conscious I felt and the harder I tried to draw attention away from my teeth. I cut my hair, grew out my bangs…In fifth grade I even practiced keeping my lower lip over my front teeth (which just made me look like a bulldog with a bad underbite). Even though my parents had always believed braces were unnecessary (My dad reasoned teeth were for chewing, so it didn’t matter what they look like), I eventually convinced them to let me get braces. Having braces was a lengthy, expensive and often painful process. My teeth were so crooked that, by the time I got them off six years later, the entire shape of my face had changed. Objectively speaking, this is really not that much different than someone getting a nose job. They are both (usually) for purely cosmetic reasons, they dramatically alter the person’s physical appearance, they’re costly and painful. However, I seriously doubt the majority of Americans would see anything wrong with me getting braces as a child.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I think we're arguing two different things so there isn't going to be any meeting of the minds. I'll leave it at that.

No, we aren't arguing two different things.

You inaccurately made the leap from "many women have issues with their appearance" to agreeing with "any woman who hasn't considered it at some point in her life is probably lying." That's false. I'll leave it at that.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

I think whatever is the norm for your area can definitely have an influence.

White girls and white women (of higher socioeconomic status) are more likely to have plastic surgery be the norm in their area. What these white girls and women are experiencing, just because they are among the power majority and considered more mainstream, doesn't translate to what "any woman" is experiencing. So, again, a statement like "any woman who hasn't considered it at some point in her life is probably lying" is false.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

White girls and white women (of higher socioeconomic status) are more likely to have plastic surgery be the norm in their area. What these white girls and women are experiencing, just because they are among the power majority and considered more mainstream, doesn't translate to what "any woman" is experiencing. So, again, a statement like "any woman who hasn't considered it at some point in her life is probably lying" is false.

That quote isn't mine and I haven't even implied I agree with it. What I said was that your surroundings influence what is normal for you. It is not at all the same as saying that everyone has the same "normal".

[honeychile]

Ladies, I used the word "probably" especially for those who objected. I'm not completely blind to others' feelings about plastic surgery.

And for the record, I would never have plastic surgery to change my basic looks, or to look like I just went through a wind tunnel. But if I ever reach my goal weight (getting there, slowly but surely!), and I need a tummy tuck, I most certainly would consider it.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Ladies, I used the word "probably" especially for those who objected. I'm not completely blind to others' feelings about plastic surgery.

I don't think you would have made that statement if you weren't blind to others' feelings about plastic surgery. Your statement was not a generalization, which are not meant to apply to everyone. Instead, it was a sweeping claim and "probably" doesn't effectively accomodate those who object.