Want a higher GPA? Go to a private university.

[baci]

Adding my 2 cents here -

FWIW, I attended both a public and private university back in the day. ( I majored in the sciences. ) What I can share is the workload was less at the public university and not nearly as challenging. I do not feel I received a solid education while at the public university. At the private university you had to hustle.

With less people in your courses you had much more of a demand on your performance on all levels. The professor was literally on top of you each and every time you were in his/her class. You definitely had to work harder to receive that A in comparison to the A at the public universiversity. It was quite intense.

I found that people studied harder and spent more time on their work at the private university for numerous reasons. (keeping scholarships, juggling part time jobs, intensity of the subject at hand)

[SydneyK]

I think there's way more involved than a simple public vs private debate. Some public schools are extremely intense and require significant work from its students. Some public universities are just high schools relocated onto a college campus. Some private schools are extremely intense and require significant work from its students. Some private universities are just high schools relocated onto a college campus.

It totally depends on the specific schools, not just whether they're private or public.

[baci]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

I think there's way more involved than a simple public vs private debate. Some public schools are extremely intense and require significant work from its students. Some public universities are just high schools relocated onto a college campus. Some private schools are extremely intense and require significant work from its students. Some private universities are just high schools relocated onto a college campus.

It totally depends on the specific schools, not just whether they're private or public.

This is so very true!

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by baci

Adding my 2 cents here -

FWIW, I attended both a public and private university back in the day. ( I majored in the sciences. ) What I can share is the workload was less at the public university and not nearly as challenging. I do not feel I received a solid education while at the public university. At the private university you had to hustle.

With less people in your courses you had much more of a demand on your performance on all levels. The professor was literally on top of you each and every time you were in his/her class. You definitely had to work harder to receive that A in comparison to the A at the public universiversity. It was quite intense.

I found that people studied harder and spent more time on their work at the private university for numerous reasons. (keeping scholarships, juggling part time jobs, intensity of the subject at hand)

Originally Posted by SydneyK

I think there's way more involved than a simple public vs private debate. Some public schools are extremely intense and require significant work from its students. Some public universities are just high schools relocated onto a college campus. Some private schools are extremely intense and require significant work from its students. Some private universities are just high schools relocated onto a college campus.

It totally depends on the specific schools, not just whether they're private or public.

Warning!! Triple post! I agree with SydneyK...intensity can even vary according to class. I went to a very small public university with some very intense science courses. Of course, I also had some very not intense classes. I made an A in Trig only because everyone else had an F and that wouldn't do! I think the point that is being missed is not that private schools are not rigorous, but that they may feel pressured to provide a good GPA with that expensive education.

[thetygerlily]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

That's alright...plus science and math have concrete answers whereas for a lot of humanities courses, the grading is more subjective which can allow for more grade padding.

I can see this- but again I think it depends on the circumstances. I got very high marks in some math & science courses because the material just made sense- and not so much for others. In humanities & social sciences... I was an anthropology & psychology major, so most of what I took fell in there. In my programs, at least, the entry level courses were hard, the mid-level courses were intense, and the upper-level courses were easy as pie as long as you had a brain, knew how to argue, and could write well. For me at least I'm sure other things played a factor, but my junior & senior years were way easier because I was taking mostly upper level (500s) courses. 300s and below, though, were especially challenging and they did NOT hand grades away. Especially in psychology- it was known for rivaling biology as one of the toughest majors to have.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Warning!! Triple post! I agree with SydneyK...intensity can even vary according to class. I went to a very small public university with some very intense science courses. Of course, I also had some very not intense classes. I made an A in Trig only because everyone else had an F and that wouldn't do! I think the point that is being missed is not that private schools are not rigorous, but that they may feel pressured to provide a good GPA with that expensive education.

I think school size matters as well- it would be interesting to see a breakdown there. Most private schools are smaller resulting in more one-on-one time, fewer TAs, etc. However, class sizes are also smaller which means you really do need to do your homework and you can't fudge it. My smallest non-independent study was 4 people, my largest was... 30? But the average was around 10-15. Most public schools are larger, resulting in less one-on-one time, more TAs, and more opportunities to hide in the shadows and just turn in assignments/papers when due. Not saying everyone does that, I'm just saying it's easier to have happen. However- when a public school is smaller, or a private school is larger... I wonder how that throws things off.

Yes, I'd be quite interested in seeing the difference between school sizes as well

[Kappamd]

Originally Posted by thetygerlily

I can see this- but again I think it depends on the circumstances. I got very high marks in some math & science courses because the material just made sense- and not so much for others. In humanities & social sciences... I was an anthropology & psychology major, so most of what I took fell in there. In my programs, at least, the entry level courses were hard, the mid-level courses were intense, and the upper-level courses were easy as pie as long as you had a brain, knew how to argue, and could write well. For me at least I'm sure other things played a factor, but my junior & senior years were way easier because I was taking mostly upper level (500s) courses. 300s and below, though, were especially challenging and they did NOT hand grades away. Especially in psychology- it was known for rivaling biology as one of the toughest majors to have.




I think school size matters as well- it would be interesting to see a breakdown there. Most private schools are smaller resulting in more one-on-one time, fewer TAs, etc. However, class sizes are also smaller which means you really do need to do your homework and you can't fudge it. My smallest non-independent study was 4 people, my largest was... 30? But the average was around 10-15. Most public schools are larger, resulting in less one-on-one time, more TAs, and more opportunities to hide in the shadows and just turn in assignments/papers when due. Not saying everyone does that, I'm just saying it's easier to have happen. However- when a public school is smaller, or a private school is larger... I wonder how that throws things off.

Yes, I'd be quite interested in seeing the difference between school sizes as well

In my opinion, school size does play a part. I started out at a large state school (50000+ students) and transferred after my freshman year to another large state school, but only about half as big as the first. School A has a better academic reputation, but I found classes at school B to be SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult just because more was expected from me. There's a big difference between sitting in a class of 600 with one prof and 10 TAs who don't know your name and a class of 75 (or smaller) where the professor will call you out by name mid-lecture.

Also, I completely agree with DrPhil's point about the misconception that answers in math and science tend to be more "concrete." Maybe in introductory courses, but definitely not in upper-levels.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kappamd

Also, I completely agree with DrPhil's point about the misconception that answers in math and science tend to be more "concrete." Maybe in introductory courses, but definietly not in upper-levels.

And I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every student who said that or something similar.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Common misconception.

I don't care what this thread is about, but want to say that private universities rock.

Originally Posted by Kappamd

Also, I completely agree with DrPhil's point about the misconception that answers in math and science tend to be more "concrete." Maybe in introductory courses, but definitely not in upper-levels.

On a general basis, the sciences are much more concrete. I'm not discussing theoretical physics here. Chemistry, Biochem, Anatomy, Botany, Physics, etc. are fairly concrete and have "right" answers. If you don't know the material, you can't BS your way through it. Sure...you can get fairly out there with string theory and other concepts, but for the most part science courses are concept driven. You understand the concept, you can work the problem. You can pass the class. After BSing my way through humanities classes in HS and college, unless they are asking for specific multiple choice rote memorization type questions, these classes are more based on subjective not objective evaluation criteria. That does not make them not difficult (especially if your mind is more analytical), but it may leave them open to grade padding.

[agzg]

This is just a statistical weakness - basically, you would need students that got the exact same range of scores on the SAT, from the exact same socioeconomic background, half at a private school, half at a public school, taking the exact same courses, taught exactly the same way, and only graded differently.

Studies are nice and can offer some insight, but there are too many variables and not enough constants for anything like this to be a definitive answer as to whether or not private schools inflate grades more than public schools.

I would also like to see data on how many students "work their way" through college at both private and public universities, contrasted with with number of students that did it back in the fifties. Logically, it would seem that if a student did not have a job during school, their grades would be higher, because they had one less commitment pulling them away from others.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by agzg

I would also like to see data on how many students "work their way" through college at both private and public universities, contrasted with with number of students that did it back in the fifties. Logically, it would seem that if a student did not have a job during school, their grades would be higher, because they had one less commitment pulling them away from others.

On the other hand, I think it could just as logically seem that students who have to work their way through school could be more motivated because they feel more personally invested -- it's their own hard-earned money on the line, not mom and dad's. Kind of a corrollary to your thought that kids at private schools may feel pressured to get a good GPA to go with the expensive education.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Did you read the article? That's exactly what they said.

uh...
Now I've read the article. Sorry 'bout that. Carry on.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

On the other hand, I think it could just as logically seem that students who have to work their way through school could be more motivated because they feel more personally invested -- it's their own hard-earned money on the line, not mom and dad's. Kind of a corrollary to your thought that kids at private schools may feel pressured to get a good GPA to go with the expensive education.

Good point. Also, students who work their way through college generally cannot do both without having good time management skills. And I'd say, generally speaking, good time-managers have a higher GPA than poor time-managers.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

uh...
Now I've read the article. Sorry 'bout that. Carry on.


Good point. Also, students who work their way through college generally cannot do both without having good time management skills. And I'd say, generally speaking, good time-managers have a higher GPA than poor time-managers.

That's alright...plus science and math have concrete answers whereas for a lot of humanities courses, the grading is more subjective which can allow for more grade padding.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

...plus science and math have concrete answers whereas for a lot of humanities courses, the grading is more subjective which can allow for more grade padding.

Common misconception.

I don't care what this thread is about, but want to say that private universities rock.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

On the other hand, I think it could just as logically seem that students who have to work their way through school could be more motivated because they feel more personally invested -- it's their own hard-earned money on the line, not mom and dad's. Kind of a corrollary to your thought that kids at private schools may feel pressured to get a good GPA to go with the expensive education.

Good point. Maybe that was just my bitter coming out about having to work full-time during grad school and thinking I could do so much better if I had more time... hehe.

[1stSoon2BePhD]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

students who have to work their way through school could be more motivated because they feel more personally invested -- it's their own hard-earned money on the line, not mom and dad's.

I know that this is true from personal experience.

Also, I am feeling the lack of inflation in science grades right about now and I don't like it ooooonnnneee bit! (I'm in grad school for my PhD in biochem)

I went to a public college and the young woman from my college who received the highest honor bestowed upon a student in the State University of New York system was a journalism major. I remember how much my fellow science major friends and I hated on her perfect gpa because we felt our gpa's could have been inflated had we chosen a different major... I'm shocked to know that we were RIGHT! (and not just hating on her)