Princeton sends letter to parents regarding concerns about Greek Life

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I always forget that Wesleyan has a Greek system. I know they had a few co-eds, but I'm not surprised at all from what I know about them.

It's about the same size as the one at my undergrad (about 2-5%). Enough so that you know they're around, but not enough to have any power on campus.

Plus,from what I've heard, there have been a ton of risk management issues with the chapters that have made things even more difficult.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Plus,from what I've heard, there have been a ton of risk management issues with the chapters that have made things even more difficult.

See, if i was the administration trying to reach parents with the message of "greeks bad, other social clubs good," i would use hard numbers and stats of these risk management incidents, not "greeks exclude people and only provide social comfort."

because like greek orgs (and referring to Munchkin03), some eating clubs are pretty exclusive/selective, and others are more all-encompassing. so in that respect they go hand in hand.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by chickenoodle

Forgive the newbie; I have a question.

It was my understanding that in order to bring greek orgs onto a college campus, the college must give approval. If this is the case, why and when did Princeton change its policy?

They did have approval when they initially came onto the campus. Princeton changed its policy because they are being "politically correct" which is a synonym for jackasses.

In response to another post, yeah it is a small amount of $$ compared with what you pay in tuition there - it's the principle of the thing. Like I said, if it was working, the fraternities and sororities would have died out - instead, we keep hearing about the pledge classes getting bigger and bigger. If the administration were NFL coaches they'd have been fired long ago.

My question is, if the eating clubs are so the be all and end all, why did the Greeks come onto campus in the first place? Or is it like an article I remember reading about Yale - to summarize, the old money, "white shoe" students joined the clubs that had been around forever and the new money/foreign students joined sororities.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by 33girl

In response to another post, yeah it is a small amount of $$ compared with what you pay in tuition there - it's the principle of the thing. Like I said, if it was working, the fraternities and sororities would have died out - instead, we keep hearing about the pledge classes getting bigger and bigger. If the administration were NFL coaches they'd have been fired long ago.

My question is, if the eating clubs are so the be all and end all, why did the Greeks come onto campus in the first place? Or is it like an article I remember reading about Yale - to summarize, the old money, "white shoe" students joined the clubs that had been around forever and the new money/foreign students joined sororities.

I'm not sure if the pledge class sizes are going up at all at Princeton, or whether the numbers have stayed stagnant. I think the size of Greek life on campus has been fairly consistent over the years, although I'm not entirely sure on that.

As to the administration - the Greek Life thing is such a small part of their job that I'm sure that most of the influential alums (including trustees) don't care how they feel about Greek life, or are happy with Greek life's small role. I'll again compare it to my school (a school with a less prestigious reputation, haha)...administration has downplayed Greek life at Boston U for about 15-20 years, and it has had little to no effect on the perception of administration. For the most part, alumni are fine with Greek life being marginalized at the school. Heck, I was extremely involved in Greek life in college (between my chapter and the Interfraternity Council), and although I'd like to see my chapter thrive, the vitality of Greek life will have no impact on how I view the administration.

As for the eating clubs - I've heard the same things as Munchkin (at least as far as Princeton is concerned), in that they attract a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds.

[Mooch279]

Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24

“I think I have to go all the way back to Woodrow Wilson ... who said one
of the most important things you do at Princeton is ... encounter the
‘other,’ ” Tilghman said. “When groups form * and more often than not,
these are forming among students who feel very comfortable with each other
* you’re losing your opportunity during your first and second year at
Princeton to encounter the ‘other,’ and that’s my philosophical objection.”

I think the administration might want to pick someone else to quote since Woodrow Wilson was a fraternity man. as for what they are quoting here, i know personally my fraternity brothers helped introduce me to things i normally wouldn't have consider doing in college (ie. SGA,student legislature and toast masters.....toast masters wasnt for me so i guess 2 out of 3 isnt bad)

i have a feeling both sides need to take a step back and look at the situation from the otherside. i think the greek life missed an oppertunity to work with the administration when they rejected the defered rush. the smart thing would have been trying it for a year or two so they could start to build some bridges with the administration.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Mooch279

I think the administration might want to pick someone else to quote since Woodrow Wilson was a fraternity man. as for what they are quoting here, i know personally my fraternity brothers helped introduce me to things i normally wouldn't have consider doing in college (ie. SGA,student legislature and toast masters.....toast masters wasnt for me so i guess 2 out of 3 isnt bad)

i have a feeling both sides need to take a step back and look at the situation from the otherside. i think the greek life missed an oppertunity to work with the administration when they rejected the defered rush. the smart thing would have been trying it for a year or two so they could start to build some bridges with the administration.

LOL to the first part - their bad.

and co-sign on the second part - if i was within the NPC/NIC/IFC system, id advocate for the deferred rush option. I do agree that greek-interested freshmen need time to be unaffiliated college students and experience it, without the disadvantage of rushing as a sophomore or through COB (at schools where formal is the norm).

but this is outside looking in - formal rush works for where it works, dont fix something that isnt broken.

[Imus]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

As for the eating clubs - I've heard the same things as Munchkin (at least as far as Princeton is concerned), in that they attract a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds.

At $45k/yr(tuition, room, and board) do you think Princeton attracts students from a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds?

[Imus]

Originally Posted by tld221

See, if i was the administration trying to reach parents with the message of "greeks bad, other social clubs good," i would use hard numbers and stats of these risk management incidents, not "greeks exclude people and only provide social comfort."

because like greek orgs (and referring to Munchkin03), some eating clubs are pretty exclusive/selective, and others are more all-encompassing. so in that respect they go hand in hand.

They probably don't use the stats because the stats don't back up their cause. Eating clubs have built in bars with tap systems, refrigerated keg rooms and probably have their share of risk management violations.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Imus

At $45k/yr(tuition, room, and board) do you think Princeton attracts students from a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds?

Well there are the scholarship students as well as those who take out loans, so yeah I do.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Imus

At $45k/yr(tuition, room, and board) do you think Princeton attracts students from a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds?

Yes, I do. You can't really presume the variety of people who attend a university based on its sticker price; Princeton also has a pretty healthy endowment from which it can offer scholarships and need-based aid.

[littleowl33]

Originally Posted by Mooch279

I think the administration might want to pick someone else to quote since Woodrow Wilson was a fraternity man.

I was going to say that! He was a Phi Kappa Psi at Hopkins. Too funny that they would quote him...

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by Imus

At $45k/yr(tuition, room, and board) do you think Princeton attracts students from a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds?

Didn't Princeton (and a couple other Ivies) match Harvard's decision to essentially offer full rides or incredible grant aid to every student? I think it did.

ETA: Princeton's financial aid packages basically eliminates financial barriers to entry: http://www.princeton.edu/admission/f...who_qualifies/

[Imus]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Didn't Princeton (and a couple other Ivies) match Harvard's decision to essentially offer full rides or incredible grant aid to every student? I think it did.

ETA: Princeton's financial aid packages basically eliminates financial barriers to entry: http://www.princeton.edu/admission/f...who_qualifies/

Harvard? There is a model for diversity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/ed...FFI.final.html


Is 1/3 of 8%, considered diversity?

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Imus

Harvard? There is a model for diversity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/ed...FFI.final.html


Is 1/3 of 8%, considered diversity?

The thing is, that's becoming the case regardless of how selective the school is. I read somewhere years ago that the majority of college freshmen identifying as "Black" are West Indian or African and not African-American. My sister, who attended UF, said that there were far more Caribbean and African students there than kids like us, who could trace their ancestry in the US at least 5-6 generations. So, while Harvard is an easy target for so many reasons, you've got the gun pointed in the wrong direction, bucko.

But, I don't see what that has to do with Princeton's socioeconomic diversity, which is something that the other 7 Ivies and their competitiors are working hard to improve.

[Imus]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

The thing is, that's becoming the case regardless of how selective the school is. I read somewhere years ago that the majority of college freshmen identifying as "Black" are West Indian or African and not African-American. My sister, who attended UF, said that there were far more Caribbean and African students there than kids like us, who could trace their ancestry in the US at least 5-6 generations. So, while Harvard is an easy target for so many reasons, you've got the gun pointed in the wrong direction, bucko.

But, I don't see what that has to do with Princeton's socioeconomic diversity, which is something that the other 7 Ivies and their competitiors are working hard to improve.

Princton is not much different than Harvard, bucko.


I have been to Princeton many times. I don't see too many blacks on campus. The minorities on campus are mostly Asian or Indian.